Discussions on Rape | INFJ Forum

Discussions on Rape

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I also disagree with this common notion, although I think a whole new thread could be opened on this topic. As unpopular as it is to say I do not think that ALL rape is about power and think sometimes does have to do with sex, otherwise "date rape" would never happen. The issue also gets muddied because the cause for anger towards women and the need to take power could easily spawn from not being fulfilled sexually.

I also don't understand why people don't think rape could have more than one cause depending on the individual rapist, the same way murder can. I'm pretty sure Jeffry Dolmer, Jim Jones, and Lee Harvey Oswald all had very different reasons for the murders they committed, why would rape not be similar?
Because it still has to do with power. Rape is less about getting off than it is about having the upper hand either over an individual who said no, womankind (and mankind and children) and a plethora of other factors that stem out of a power relationship. I agree that rapes can and do have more than one cause depending on the individual. It would be foolish to say all rapes happen because men feel depowered by women. What lays at the root of most of these causes, however, is a struggle for power and not simply a struggle to get off.
 
Because it still has to do with power. Rape is less about getting off than it is about having the upper hand either over an individual who said no, womankind (and mankind and children) and a plethora of other factors that stem out of a power relationship. I agree that rapes can and do have more than one cause depending on the individual. It would be foolish to say all rapes happen because men feel depowered by women. What lays at the root of most of these causes, however, is a struggle for power and not simply a struggle to get off.

If that is the case would you say robbing a bank is more about having power over the teller than getting the money?
 
If that is the case would you say robbing a bank is more about having power over the teller than getting the money?
Different type of crime, and is kinda a red herring arguement. While both are crimes, the root cause is different. Robbery could be the power, or it could be economic gain. Rape, however, is very rarely a gain in any sort of sense other than power because so few happen just to get off.
 
Different type of crime, and is kinda a red herring arguement. While both are crimes, the root cause is different. Robbery could be the power, or it could be economic gain. Rape, however, is very rarely a gain in any sort of sense other than power because so few happen just to get off.

I guess I don't understand what the purpose for rape would be if it was usually always about power, I mean it seems like a man just after power could tie up a woman and beat her without having sex with her (I'm sure this happens, but not to the extent that rape does).

How do you know rapes rarely happen just to get off?
 
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I guess I don't understand what the purpose for rape would be if it was usually always about power, I mean it seems like a man just after power could tie up a woman and beat her without having sex with her (I'm sure this happens, but not to the extent that rape does).

How do you know rapes rarely happen just to get off?
What you bring up about being tied up is about power, and that's exactly what rape does (and murder, which you commented on before) Crimes of power take away an individual's right to chose. They force the individual to commit against their will giving the aggressor the feeling and actuality of dominance and control. Getting off could be part of it, but consensual sex and masturbation can achieve that. Committing rape takes more than just getting off because it combines power over another individual's choices, and invalidates them.
 
You realise this is a thread split from a thread split. Perhaps we could split this comment into its own thread. Then we'll have a thread split from a thread split from a thread split, about thread splits.

Minds will be blown.
 
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It follows that because there are different types of rape there must be different reasons why the rapist commits his/her act.

Date rape is not the same as violent rape. It's a totally different thing to drug someone to the eyeballs in order to be able to take advantage of them than to bash them into submition.

but there are so many factors involved. I don't think that power is the contributer for all rapes, but I do think it's a major factor in the crime itself. rapists prey on people who are usually weaker than themselves who they can control and possess. However there can be all kinds of reasons for them actually doing the act. could be that they can't actually get sexual pleasure from conventional non-violent methods, could be that they're not actually any good at finding a partner or it could be desire for a certain person who they know won't sleep with them.
 
I had a conversation with some INTPs
about rape yesterday.


According to dictionaries sexual intercourse
is only vaginal penetration. So does this
mean forced anal/oral sex isn't "rape"?
I don't know. I just simply do not know.
 
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I had a conversation with some INTPs
about rape yesterday.


According to dictionaries sexual intercourse
is only vaginal penetration. So does this
mean forced anal/oral sex isn't "rape"?
I don't know. I just simply do not know.

wikipedia said:
Non-penetrative sex (for example, non-penetrative aspects of oral sex such as varying degrees of cunnilingus) and mutual masturbation have been referred to as "outercourse",[4][5][6][7] but may also be among the sexual acts contributing to human bonding and considered intercourse. The term sex can be taken to mean any mutual genital stimulation...

:)
 
I had a conversation with some INTPs
about rape yesterday.


According to dictionaries sexual intercourse
is only vaginal penetration. So does this
mean forced anal/oral sex aren't "rape"?
I don't know. I just simply do not know.

hmm, perhaps they need qualifiers. Kind of like how oral sex, isnt exactly "sex" its... ya know. ORAL sex... so maybe they need the same distinctions in rape, like oral rape, she was orally raped. Or anal raped. he was anally raped... or butt raped. That sounds much more funny. He was butt raped, and subsequently suffered butt-hurt. Both in his feelings and his butt.
 
You realise this is a thread split from a thread split. Perhaps we could split this comment into its own thread. Then we'll have a thread split from a thread split from a thread split, about thread splits.

Minds will be blown.
Oh.so.tempting...
 
I agree with [MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] that rape is not always about gaining power. It always involves dominating the victim but the power is not necessarily the objective. Certainly the victim is not valued as a human being. I can think of one particularly disgusting example. WARNING: The next sentences are shocking, you may wish to stop here. Continuing. In some cultures, among ignorant people, there is a belief that stds can be cured by sex with a virgin so very young girls are sometimes raped. The objective isn't power over the girl. Power is simply the means to the end, curing gonorrhea.
 
I guess I don't understand what the purpose for rape would be if it was usually always about power, I mean it seems like a man just after power could tie up a woman and beat her without having sex with her (I'm sure this happens, but not to the extent that rape does).

How do you know rapes rarely happen just to get off?

Because rape is the worst thing you can do to a woman (or a man), maybe including murder, because then she has to live with it forever. This is psychological torture for the rest of one's life. What could be more an expression of evil power?

It's in the news today that the CBS reporter Lara Logan was brutally raped in Cairo by a mob. Certainly the mob wasn't doing this to "get off?" What a horror. My heart goes out to her and I hope that she eventually recovers to the the greatest extent that she can. What about the sub-humans who perpetrated this crime? Each one has a mother and, maybe, a sister, aunt, daughter. Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with brutality.
 
Because rape is the worst thing you can do to a woman (or a man), maybe including murder, because then she has to live with it forever. This is psychological torture for the rest of one's life. What could be more an expression of evil power?

It's in the news today that the CBS reporter Lara Logan was brutally raped in Cairo by a mob. Certainly the mob wasn't doing this to "get off?" What a horror. My heart goes out to her and I hope that she eventually recovers to the the greatest extent that she can. What about the sub-humans who perpetrated this crime? Each one has a mother and, maybe, a sister, aunt, daughter. Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with brutality.

I feel for the victims of those kind of crimes and I do agree that SOME rape IS about brutality and violence, however I don't think you can look at isolated incidents and say it's all the same thing. I firmly believe that rape has multiple motives and it depends on the situation, the situation that happened to that reporter was defiantly about brutality, but I don't think that it always is about that.
 
Because rape is the worst thing you can do to a woman (or a man), maybe including murder, because then she has to live with it forever. This is psychological torture for the rest of one's life. What could be more an expression of evil power?

It's in the news today that the CBS reporter Lara Logan was brutally raped in Cairo by a mob. Certainly the mob wasn't doing this to "get off?" What a horror. My heart goes out to her and I hope that she eventually recovers to the the greatest extent that she can. What about the sub-humans who perpetrated this crime? Each one has a mother and, maybe, a sister, aunt, daughter. Rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with brutality.

I agree rape is the worst thing that can be done to a woman and I'm sorry to hear of the crime against Lara Logan.

I do not think anyone is trying to deny that rape is evil or that it involves the most brutal use of power. I think the sticking point is whether exerting power is always the objective. Perhaps, the difficulty comes from a fear that the victim will be blamed if you say otherwise. However, I don't see why the victim should ever be blamed. Irregardless, of the rapist's objective, rape is always wrong and unjustified. That does not mean rape cannot be explained.
 
I feel for the victims of those kind of crimes and I do agree that SOME rape IS about brutality and violence, however I don't think you can look at isolated incidents and say it's all the same thing. I firmly believe that rape has multiple motives and it depends on the situation, the situation that happened to that reporter was defiantly about brutality, but I don't think that it always is about that.


There are different types of rapists. The power rapist, (obviously seeks to dominate their victim through sex) the sadistic rapist (gets aroused by causing pain in others) and the anger rapist.. who becomes so enraged at whatever life circumstances they are facing--that they feel going out and releasing that rage on someone is the only way to deal with it.
 
There are different types of rapists. The power rapist, (obviously seeks to dominate their victim through sex) the sadistic rapist (gets aroused by causing pain in others) and the anger rapist.. who becomes so enraged at whatever life circumstances they are facing--that they feel going out and releasing that rage on someone is the only way to deal with it.

The "power rapist" and "anger rapist" seem to have the same basic motivation to me, they're both seeking to gain a sense of control by dominating another individual.
 
Maybe it is just the stubborn etymological reactionary in me, but I really think that sexual crimes need a different term than rape. The word rape comes from the Latin rapio, meaning "to forcibly seize or abduct." The term could refer to robbery, but generally meant kidnapping. It eventually came to be associated with sexual violations as it was common for kidnappers to violate their victims, but the raptus was the abduction while the forced sex was the seperate crime of stuprum.
 
Maybe it is just the stubborn etymological reactionary in me, but I really think that sexual crimes need a different term than rape. The word rape comes from the Latin rapio, meaning "to forcibly seize or abduct." The term could refer to robbery, but generally meant kidnapping. It eventually came to be associated with sexual violations as it was common for kidnappers to violate their victims, but the raptus was the abduction while the forced sex was the seperate crime of stuprum.

Regardless of its etymology, it means what it means today, and that's how the word "rape" should be used.