Consequence of Riots in London | INFJ Forum

Consequence of Riots in London

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Aaron Thyne, Jun 11, 2020.

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  1. Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    BLM is highly polarized even in England. If you think riots are the only option left, maybe it's worth considering that perhaps you're being played. Maybe the soundbite "we've tried everything else, this is the only option left" isn't exactly true.

    I'm not going to propose a solution. But surely "civil war" isn't the only option left. If you think that it is, then maybe you lack imagination.
     
    #1 Aaron Thyne, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  2. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker

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    I'm not as up to date as you are on this, but I agree with the sentiment that violence is never a solution to social/political problems—except in cases where there is no other choice, i.e. cases of self-defense.
     
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    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    Exactly. Its alarming to me because 2 of my sisters have spoken out in support of rioting and looting. Both of them said that "we've tried everything else, this is the only option left". And they're not stupid. Not even close.

    What kind of message are they getting that me and wolly are not? Whatever it is, its creating an emotionally charged divide within my own family, and I find that scary.
     
  4. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker

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    Could it be linked to an extreme distrust of the authorities in place? Or a belief that the institutions themselves cannot be reformed?
     
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    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    Actually, now that you mention it, this is exactly it! Well that in combination with an unwillingness to use their bloody imagination.

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on the riots going on around the world?
     
  6. John K

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    I suspect there are several things that have led to all the demos and rioting. The lockdowns have probably been the fuel that's been filling the discontent tank these last few months - the pressure has been building up and it was always going to find a weak spot like lava rising in a volcano that's approaching eruption. The racial grievances seem to me to be a blend of genuine issues plus nonsense, and it has been aggravated, at least in the UK, by the fact that Corvid 19 seems to be racist too and is more dangerous to people of colour than white folks. It may even be that the current unrest has released pressure that could have built up to something worse, I suppose.

    I think the media is to blame as well, at least in the West. They can't function without constantly attacking anyone who's trying to deal with the issues politically or scientifically - despite the fact that there are no right answers and no precognition. Driven by ratings only, the media latch onto contentious issues with the glory of hindsight and an attitude of nagging pseudo morality, and sidetrack things that are going well - that rubs off onto people who already have a grievance, and sows doubt among many other people who then lose confidence in the leaders. The leaders do stupid things of course, they are only human, and that gets amplified artificially by the media, much more prominently than the things they do wisely. Add all that to the internet process of condensing out inward looking groups of bigoted, self-reinforcing, like-minded folks on a large scale and you are looking at where the trouble is coming from.

    We are possibly seeing the seeds of how modern civilisation will come to an end. Not now but in a generation or two, because these seeds will grow to the point that people cannot be governed by traditional democratic blends of compromise and consensus. That must inevitably result in one or the other of these bigoted groups setting up authoritarian rule and imposing their ideas and false histories on everyone regardless. Civil war is pretty likely in the next 50 years in many countries I'm afraid.
     
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  7. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker

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    Maybe they are all too willing to use their imagination, but not backed up by enough rationality. Maybe they think a detached approach is too cold?

    It's an unfortunately tempting trap for many people to liken critical distance to lack of concern.

    I haven't followed them closely enough to have an informed opinion, I'm afraid. I'll look into it more.

    Looks like @John K has some interesting insights to share.
     
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  8. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    I'm sick of it now. It's one thing to protest police brutality and another to demand the removal of any references to the past.

    I mean, they want to take down a statue of the founder of the scouts because he was racist and homophobic one hundred odd years ago. Nevermind that realistically he was probably a nonce too. I mean, come on, the scouts?

    Like I said, the police brutality protest is one thing but they're getting carried away and it seems to all come under this umbrella of black lives matter. What about the black children who are currently essentially slaves mining for the materials to make the smartphones these protesters all use? Isn't that a bit more pressing than erasing the past willy-nilly because people had thinking that was normal in the era in which they lived?

    I don't mind some statues coming down by any means. We probably shouldn't have statues of slavers around modern cities. But if it starts extending to people who merely implicitly supported it or benefitted from it then they need to take a look at themselves because they're doing the same thing. Consumerist black lives in developed nations matter. The privilege pyramid extends down. Way, way down.
     
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    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    That's really interesting. So you've been polarized on this as well?
     
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  10. Hostarius

    Hostarius A R C

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    Is it? News to me.

    Tommy Robinson can't really be considered a mainstream voice, what with being a Neo-Nazi and everything.
     
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  11. Aneirin

    Aneirin AKA, David
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    when those references to the past represent the systemic racism of the present they need to come down. when you hail confederate generals as heroes you are dog whistling to white supremacists to act. we have tried to use peaceful protest, to change laws, to change hearts. . white man dont listen cause white man don't care. when Kapernick tried he was called a variety of vile things. . "son of a bitch"by the president. .blacks are being killed by the police. . you can be stopped for being black while walking, jogging, driving, standing, sleeping. . and they see no value to their lives so they don't care. . enough is enough. the system didn't notice until shit started burning. nobody cared until ten thousand knelt on Morrison bridge. . when the president used tear gas and the police attacked protesters so he could take a picture. . enough is enough, time to march. . and. we will tear your racist shit down because we tried to convince you of how wrong it is, but you didn't care.. . well, they care now. . they care now because the world is watching police brutality and systemic racism in real time, living color. . enough is enough. . as Rev. Sharpton said, "there is wickedness in high places". .
     
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    #11 Aneirin, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  12. Hostarius

    Hostarius A R C

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    On the subject of Baden-Powell, I think the point is that he's not celebrated for his racism, unlike the slavers who's 'business activities' constitute their singular 'achievements'.

    If the criterion for pulling down a statue is that the person had ideas that were unacceptable to the present, then we better pull down everything of Churchill, too.

    Elizabeth I said there were too many blackamoors in England... better deface all her shit as well.
     
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    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    I don't know whether this is a joke, or whether you're not aware that even this is a polarized opinion....
     
  14. Hostarius

    Hostarius A R C

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    Maybe you could tell me how unaware I am.
     
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    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    I'm not trying to be an asshole. I am just genuinely surprised that you don't know....
     
  16. OP
    Aaron Thyne

    Aaron Thyne Regular Poster

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    Although I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think its exactly true. We have made HUGE moral strides over the past 140 years. Saying that "white people don't care" is not only racist, it is a gross exaggeration.

    Consider the monumental moral progress humanity made throughout the 20th century. So much happened within the span of a century, so much progress was made that it has all been wrapped into one title: The Rights Movement. Among many other things, and I do mean many, The Rights Movement is characterized by the introduction of: civil rights, women’s rights, minority rights and so much more.

    In this time, the number of lynching’s, hate crimes and discrimination against minorities have all dropped. Rape, domestic violence, matricide, child abuse and school violence have all nose dived. Even violence towards animals is now under intense scrutiny; another unprecedented development in public morality. Further, according to The World Bank, homicide rate per 100,000 per year has dropped to just over 1, which is an all time low.


    I'm not saying that discrimination doesn't exist, or that there is not more progress to be made. What I AM saying, however, is that we have made huge moral strides over the past 130 years, and none of it was made because we let our moral conscience off the hook to riot and loot. It took us a lot to get here, but it doesn't take much to send us all back to the wetlands.
     
  17. Hostarius

    Hostarius A R C

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    Nor I, but I just don't know what you're trying to say. What kind/extent of polarisation are you witnessing in the UK?
     
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  18. Aneirin

    Aneirin AKA, David
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    I wish everything said about progress made was true. . unfortunately, if there had not been a camera there, George would just be another day in police society..Breonna Taylor's injuries listed on the incident report the night she was shot 8 times by the police? "no injuries". . the response of the officer to a black man being told he can't breath during an arrest, again with another officer with a knee to the neck. . "I don't care". . as he was being suffocated to death. .
    yes, the black man should be satisfied with the progress we have made. .
     
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  19. noisebloom

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    I think Britain is funny
     
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  20. Roses In The Vineyard

    Roses In The Vineyard Community Member

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    This issue is only going to get worse as the left and the msm continues to fan to flames for their own ends and exploiting BLM is just means to an end. If they wanted peace they wouldn't be smashing things up and neither would they be attacking people regardless but they don't care.
     
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