Catholic Sexual Abuse Scandals

[Raccoon Love]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/19/catholic.church.abuse/index.html?npt=NP1

''As the Vatican announced Friday that Pope Benedict XVI has signed a pastoral letter about Ireland's abusive priests, it became increasingly clear that the church abuse crisis has entered a new international phase, with allegations spreading across a half dozen countries -- including the pope's native Germany.''

There seems to be a massive rise of sexual abuse committed by priests against minors. I could not help but observe the massive amount of new releases made by the media on this issue. I know that this issues have been going on for a long time, but the fact that specially all of this is being released now is of serious concern to the catholic church and its future.

In your opinion what are the causes of this sexual abuses committed by the priests? Do you believe the catholic church holds views that are outdated and therefore need reforming, if so which specific ones? Do you believe there will be massive decline in Catholicism in the coming years? gradual? Is the catholic church falling apart with all the latest scandals? Discuss anything you wish on the subject.

 

[randomsomeone]

No, I don't think anything will fall apart...it just wounds and/or confuses a lot of folks. Some of them may turn elsewhere and frankly I don't blame them. Thing is, there are a lot of really good priests out there (I know many myself). I do think some changes could rightfully transpire over time...I'd be fine with that. It may help situations like this, but it would not really alter the core belief system all that much. I could see something like this happening.

 

[NaeturVindur]

What I know is that the Irish are rather pissed at how little the Vatican has done, so I see three possible endings for this:
The Vatican comes down harder on abusive priests, and the Irish are appeased.
This all blows over and nothing changes.
The Vatican does nothing, and the Irish have a falling out with the Vatican, and will no longer be Catholics. The Irish historically have always had a problem with pretty much all protestant christians. this means that either the Irish will:
Create their own church
Turn to Irish Paganism.

I'm sincerely hoping that the last happens, because that would be awesome. I mean, they kept almost all of their old Gods in the form of saints. Just get rid of the word "Saint" and we're good!

 

[Norton]

In your opinion what are the causes of this sexual abuses committed by the priests?

Isn't it incredible that the Church, which is supposed to stand for that which is positive and good, instead harbors priests who do some of the most evil things imaginable, that is, the rape of children! And then, leaders of the Church commit the crime of covering up these rapes, and transfer the pederasts to new parishes where they again rape children.

Child-raping priests are the quintessence of evil. Even more evil is a Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal or Pope who shields and protects a child-raping priest.

Even today in Ireland, Germany, and elsewhere, these rapists of children go unpunished.

Repressed sexuality twists the soul.

 

[Shai Gar]

I dunno... If Garth Ennis hadnt been raped by a priest as a child, his books would not be anywhere near as awesome.

The catholics wiped out the south american languages and annihilated their literature.
They set back science about 500 years.
They burned free thinkers at the stake and tortured many to death.
They invaded Islam and turned one of the greatest cultures in history into a mirror of their own.
They held their own death camps while telling off nazis for theirs.
They lead the world in Jewish ostracism andabuse.

How could you not expect this of them? The current pope was the head of the spanish inquisition before being voted in as pope.

 

[alcyone]

Why is this such a surprise?

I mean, the church pretty much did damage control and cover up here in the US a few years ago. Did everyone else in the world believe that the abusive priests were only here in the US?

 

[Barnabas]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/19/catholic.church.abuse/index.html?npt=NP1

''As the Vatican announced Friday that Pope Benedict XVI has signed a pastoral letter about Ireland's abusive priests, it became increasingly clear that the church abuse crisis has entered a new international phase, with allegations spreading across a half dozen countries -- including the pope's native Germany.''

There seems to be a massive rise of sexual abuse committed by priests against minors. I could not help but observe the massive amount of new releases made by the media on this issue. I know that this issues have been going on for a long time, but the fact that specially all of this is being released now is of serious concern to the catholic church and its future.

In your opinion what are the causes of this sexual abuses committed by the priests? Do you believe the catholic church holds views that are outdated and therefore need reforming, if so which specific ones? Do you believe there will be massive decline in Catholicism in the coming years? gradual? Is the catholic church falling apart with all the latest scandals? Discuss anything you wish on the subject.

I finda number of views need to be updated in the Catholic Church. But I would say the one that pertains mostly tot his would be the need to reform the view that preists should not marry.

It would eliviate atleast two problems if not others, first off it would give Priests a sexual release that is not a four year old boy. Secondly there are a great number of catholics whom are devote but don't want to become preist because tey would not be allowed to marry, thus leading to a shortage of preists.

I also believe the doctrine of purgatory if nothing else needs to be reconsidered. Seeing as it stems from the tradition of selling indulgences and is not found in either the NT or the OT.

Preists and bishops should also reframe from being called father based on Matt 23:9 and that priest should not be called priest based on fact that every christian is a priest accordring to 1 Peter 2:9

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I finda number of views need to be updated in the Catholic Church. But I would say the one that pertains mostly tot his would be the need to reform the view that preists should not marry.

Agreed.

 

[TinyBubbles]

Isn't it incredible that the Church, which is supposed to stand for that which is positive and good, instead harbors priests who do some of the most evil things imaginable, that is, the rape of children! And then, leaders of the Church commit the crime of covering up these rapes, and transfer the pederasts to new parishes where they again rape children.

Child-raping priests are the quintessence of evil. Even more evil is a Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal or Pope who shields and protects a child-raping priest.

Even today in Ireland, Germany, and elsewhere, these rapists of children go unpunished.

Repressed sexuality twists the soul.

or maybe sins of opportunity occur more often than we realize.

 

[muir]

[quote=N

 

[Moxie]

I'm not a Christian, and don't care a bit about the different sects of the church. What I do hate to see though, are the bad priests and nuns who make everyone view every priest or nun as a a bad person, when in fact many are still good and honest people. It's as bad as believing that every athiest is a bad person, which isn't true either. I hate when the actions of a few come to epitomize the whole - when people hear stories like these, and can no longer look any priest in the face. There are good people and bad people in every area of life, and the biggest fault with the Catholic church is ignoring this, and sweeping it under the carpet like they have for so long. All the pope really has to do is make a public edict, "Any priest who is accused of sexual relations against minors is defrocked, and immediately turned over to non-church authorities to investigate. If the accusation appears to have been in error, the priest will be reinstated." Would solve a lot of problems I think.

 

[Krumplenump]

In your opinion what are the causes of this sexual abuses committed by the priests?

Repression of sexuality, sexuality being a taboo and/or the religious hierarchy that promotes both servitude and a sense of indivdual power for those in the top jobs.

Do you believe the catholic church holds views that are outdated and therefore need reforming, if so which specific ones?

The whole Catholic faith is outdated and suited to a warring world of the dark ages. And reform reform reform, it's nothing but an excuse to pick and choose from a set of dogmatic mantras for those who can't bring themselves to part with a fairy tale. Aside from that it's also very misleading and quite frustrating for religion, particularly Catholicism, to keep modernising itself, completely refuting it's past decisions and going against it's centuries-old principles and yet still call itself 'Catholicism'. Since Catholicism is also perfectly structred as a tool of usage and a method by which to gain political power and retain control over the masses, this ceaseless warping of it's ideals is also dangerous: should the world descend into chaos, the Catholic Church would almost certainly be a force to rise it's ugly head and be quick to change its policies to best ensure it's survival.

So I think that to 'reform' the Catholic Church to a point where it could be tolerable to the morals of humanity, would mean reforming the term 'Catholic' out of existence.

Do you believe there will be massive decline in Catholicism in the coming years? gradual? Is the catholic church falling apart with all the latest scandals?

There are certainly those who break away from their faith due to such events. But these people are often the 'subconciously' religious ones, those who realise that - with these events that alienate them from the faith they've always known - they were naturally atheists all along and only religious in the cultural sense. All humans, as all animals, are born devoid of religious affiliation.

But as for those who consciously follow their Catholic faith because they follow the Pope's word and believe in God Almighty, I do not think such events, however horrific, would sway their faith in their religion or God because for them there's always an answer: 'These men are not really men of God', or 'Satan took them', or 'we need to modernise our faith to stamp out these sorts of events'. It never seems to occur to them that to stamp out the tribal foundations that give rise to such abuse of power in the church would be to stamp out the very historically established identitiy of Catholicism itself.

 

[soulseeker]

really??? Catholic priests NOW rape people!?!?!?

I wasn't aware of it till now... well I know they did here in our country BEFORE when we were colonized by Spain but now... really!?!?!!?

well... I don't think Catholicism is declining
I don't think the Church is falling apart

I think it depends on the people practicing the faith.

Priests are people and they have flaws.

does the Church need reformation?
I guess not.... heehee hee with what Martin Luther did, I kinda think that he did the right thing during that time because the Church really needed reformation ( the flaws of some "priests" were contradicting what the Church teaches and some priests were like being called "priests" without them taking their responsibility to the Catholic people )

But I think that it really depends on the relationship between the believers and God. The priests don't really represent us and we have our own personal relationship with God and if you live what the Church teaches.. you live it right, then what's the reform for?

I mean the Church is the kingdom of God in process so it's not perfect YET because it's still in PROCESS so.. it depends on the people if they journey with the Church despite its shadows or not.

I think it's only that priest's fault and maybe they should make a council or something in their country so they could strengthen and live out their faith more.

I think reformation of the WHOLE Catholic Church is not needed it will cause more trouble.. I guess

or maybe... I really think it's okay for people to change their faith. If they don't find God in being a Catholic then find God in other religions.


wait..I think I didn't answer correctly ahahahahhaahaha

okay.. the priests.. well......

yeah I don't think all priests are bad.. of course not.. Catholicism here is doing very good... there are corrupt priests and all that but majority of the priests here are really really really kind....

Even the priest that called me hard headed is kind too ahahahahaha... well I know he is helping street children whenever he sees them...

and REALLY I didn't know that some priests in other countries rape people... well see?.. not all priests are bad.. the some of the priests here are good people

 

[Krumplenump]

But I think that it really depends on the relationship between the believers and God. The priests don't really represent us and we have our own personal relationship with God and if you live what the Church teaches.. you live it right, then what's the reform for?

This sounds as though you're not really catholic at all, but rather someone who professes a link between yourself (a believer) and a force of some kind (god). If this is the case and you do not see priests as that important or as a representative of yourself then you evidently have some gripes about the catholic system. Are you just a person who professes a link between yourself and a force, sorta spiritualist, or do you put stock in the Catholic system?

 

[testing]

God, I'm pissed about this. My husband's family is Catholic, and when we first married I was all for teaching our sons about the Catholic side of their heritage, and even would've converted to Catholicism had he wanted me to. (He vehemently didn't, but that is a subject for another post...)

But between the scandals in the US, and now this, if anyone thinks I'm letting my little irish boys anywhere close to any priests they're freaking crazy. Maybe the church should let the priests marry and then the priesthood wouldn't attract such freaking perverts.

To be (somewhat) fair and objective (which is not my strong point) other organizations have abuse scandals too, including the boy scouts and several protestant groups. And no, not all priests are bad. But jeeze louise, enough already! Do something about it that amounts to more than a hand slapping!!! It seems ingrained in the system at this point.

 

[randomsomeone]

"Any priest who is accused of sexual relations against minors is defrocked, and immediately turned over to non-church authorities to investigate. If the accusation appears to have been in error, the priest will be reinstated."

Given the level of the infraction, I think this is the way to go.

 

[soulseeker]

This sounds as though you're not really catholic at all, but rather someone who professes a link between yourself (a believer) and a force of some kind (god). If this is the case and you do not see priests as that important or as a representative of yourself then you evidently have some gripes about the catholic system. Are you just a person who professes a link between yourself and a force, sorta spiritualist, or do you put stock in the Catholic system?

wait.. NOT SOME KIND OF GOD.... I believe in our God .. not just some kind of God

ahahahahaahahaha... I knew I was off topic

I GUESS SO or NOT

ahhahaha . well... I'M KINDA CONFUSED SLASH NOT CONFUSED

ooh okay I've been questioning myself this since.... last year? ahahahaha and I JUST DON'T WANT TO ANSWER MYSELF...

ehehehe maybe because I'm afraid to hear myself

but ohhhhhhhh I feel so guilty typing this

oh no....

I LOVE GOD ehehehehe

I'm still a Catholic though

I know that priests are important because they're like mediators between us and God but this is just one of some questions I have in the Catholic faith. I KNOW I DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE CATHOLIC SYSTEM THINGY but... I still believe in it.. it's not like I'm believing blindly because I do study a lot about our faith and it's not like i wanna neglect the priests and some teachings and our faith is not something never to be understood because the church is also considered a mystery.. not something never to be understood but something where there's more to understand... I THINK THAT what's to be understood is something great that can't be grasped by the human mind.. so I choose to believe and have faith NOT BLINDLY THOUGH

but I kinda believe that what's really important is our relationship with God. I'm not saying that the priests are not involved .. well the priests help and they teach us and they try to develop our faith but... I JUST WANT SOME PERSONAL CONNECTION WITH PRIESTS.... wait.. of course not TOO TOO personal.. ahahahaha that's different hahaha what I mean is... I just have to connect I guess... I wanna have that feeling like.. they really make an effort to reach out to the Catholic people.. I know they do but I just wanna feel it myself but it would be okay for me if I don't because there are a lot of people who need it more than I do.

okay so.. I don't really understand EVERYTHING about my faith but I AM striving to understand it more and I know there's more to learn and even if I don't understand everything .. I will still believe in the Catholic teachings

I think I said that what matters is my relationship with God because even some Catholic people offend me A LOT... maybe not some maybe.. MANY
and whenever I go to Church, I FEEL THEM ... I FEEL the energy that some give off and... I don't like it and I feel out of place.. I feel rejected but I guess that's what keeps my faith stronger..that I know that I'm going through all of these because I'm building a relationship with our God.. but it doesn't meant I'm completely erasing the role of Catholic people and priests in my life.

oh and I'm just sad that a lot of Catholic are Catholics only by name
I just feel that I have to believe in something... and even if majority of the Catholics are bad.. I think I would still remain Catholic I mean if they're bad it doesn't mean that the Catholic teachings are bad and if they're bad it doesn't mean that the Catholic teachings are altered.. they just chose to live how they wanted to live

 

[randomsomeone]

stamp out the tribal foundations that give rise to such abuse of power in the church would be to stamp out the very historically established identitiy of Catholicism itself.

This is a related (but seperate) issue and I agree. Temporal power is a very tricky for the Christian community....it has rarely worked here and there (when the leaders were solely driven by faith) but more often it failed miserably, largely due to the persons and politics involved.

Catholicism (at it's roots) is a very rich and profound tradition that actually works in real life, even today. It provides (again, at it's roots) an actual path to human enlightenment, even richer for it's long experience. That is why it will continue....the inner life. The external structures can and should change because these scandals are a big, big deal.

 

[Shai Gar]

Son of an Anglican Priest.
Anglicans are allowed to marry.
The first Pope had a wife and family, he even said you should not be a priest without having known your OWN family.

The Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane rose to the most powerful position in Australian Politics, the Governor General of Australia. He was fired by the queen because when he was Bishop he helped cover up allegations of child abuse of a priest.

Seems like the same sort of action needs to happen with the pope. If they cover up allegations that have not been proven false, should be out on their arse.

 

[Krumplenump]

okay so.. I don't really understand EVERYTHING about my faith but I AM striving to understand it more and I know there's more to learn and even if I don't understand everything .. I will still believe in the Catholic teachings

when you say teachings, does it mean that you agree with the rejection of contraceptives by the vatican in Africa? Does it mean that you agree with the 'teaching' of original sin, where all humans are ridden with sin at birth? What about vicarious redemption, where you can chuck your misdeeds and wrongdoings onto a scapegoat and at once become innocent of a crime without paying for it?

I think I said that what matters is my relationship with God because even some Catholic people offend me A LOT... maybe not some maybe.. MANY
and whenever I go to Church, I FEEL THEM ... I FEEL the energy that some give off and... I don't like it and I feel out of place.. I feel rejected but I guess that's what keeps my faith stronger..that I know that I'm going through all of these because I'm building a relationship with our God..

How do you know that? Do you not think it it far more likely that you believe it so bad that you feel a self-created presence instead of an actual one? Despite the fact that it's been proven humans can create soporific illusions or convince themselves of a non-existent presence if their environment and state of mind are in such and such a way, do you still maintain against all the odds that you are genuinely experiencing a one-to-one link with 'your' god?

oh and I'm just sad that a lot of Catholic are Catholics only by name

If all Catholics were more than just 'catholic by name' and actually practised what is preached, then I dare say we might all be living in a global Catholic dictatorship.

I just feel that I have to believe in something... and even if majority of the Catholics are bad.. I think I would still remain Catholic I mean if they're bad it doesn't mean that the Catholic teachings are bad and if they're bad it doesn't mean that the Catholic teachings are altered..

Oh, so the tool (Catholicism) with which they reached this state of 'badness' had no impact..? That you could bring yourself to remain a Catholic by definition inspite of all the horrific acts done in the NAME of it and the inhuman practices STILL preached by it is alien to me. I cannot fathom the reasoning behind why someone would believe in a faith that's brought so much domination, misery and tyranny to the world based on the mere fact 'they feel they have to believe in something'.