Career change at 27 - Engineering to Psychology

[Kamill]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here. Amazing to see so many people sharing the same thoughts and feelings. Here's an abstract what's this all about:
Recently I found out I'm an INFJ, after a couple of years feeling I'm following a career path which is far from the things I value.
Understanding the things I value is also a process which took years, but maybe now I see things more clearly.
So.. I'm an engineer with a career in the high-tech industry, but I feel my purpose is to help people get through life in a better way. (sigh...)
I'll elaborate -

I'm in a bit of a crossroad now, and I figured the best thing to do would be to share it with others.
Since I remember starting to really think about things (somewhere around age 12) I've been asking myself the famous question - "what will I be when I grow up?". Of course the answer did not show up, and that question kept on nagging me for several years.
Where I come from, we do a military service for several years. So naturally, I joined the army at 18. That was a great time for me, putting aside the ugly side of the military. I remember that sometime near the end of my service I was saying out loud that the best thing about those years was that I got the chance to help others go through the military experience in a better, positive way .
Disregarding that notion, I went to university to study Industrial Engineering. It seemed natural - I'm good with numbers, I love creative solutions for everyday problems. Not only that, both my parents and all of my brothers went through the path of engineering/math. I did briefly consider studying psychology, but I ruled that out telling myself I don't want to hear other people's problems - because where will I fulfill myself in this sort of profession?
Studying at uni was fantastic. Everyday I learned something new. After graduating, I started working at a promising start-up company as a programmer. I was there for a year and a half, and at the time of my leaving the company was already doing very well. The problem was that I barely got to pull myself out of bed in the morning those entire 18 months . My job was somewhat challenging, but I felt so detached from it.
Eventually I moved to another company, working as a data analyst. I was convinced that this would solve that feeling of being detached, but I was wrong. Working with numbers all day long and understanding the business is great, but I keep on thinking that it's just very far from what I truly value.
Both workplaces think very highly of me, I know that for sure. So they definitely get what they want, but I feel like a stranger in this environment.

Some morning it's so bad that I just call in sick. I'm ashamed of that... I've never done that before.
A few days ago I remembered that thing I said in the military, about helping people. It literally struck me - do some people tend to be "healers"? Am I this "healer" type?
I started googling about this "healer" personality, not knowing somebody already put a lot of effort categorizing 16 patterns of personalities. Than I stumbled upon Keirsey's personality test. Usually I wouldn't even consider doing such a test, thinking it's probably a scam. I guess my inner compass was stronger than those rational thoughts. I took the test, and it turned out to be that I'm the Idealist Counselor, aka - INFJ. I started reading through the detailed report explaining about this personality type. I don't remember crying that hard for such a long time. I felt like someone was looking through me with X-rays, telling me of the all the things about myself I considered to be either "good" or "bad".
The hardest part to read was the typical jobs for this personality. Programming/Analysis wasn't there.. but all sorts of therapists, including psychologists were high up in the list. That really tore me apart. I'm angry with myself now - how could I be so blind?

I've known for years that I'm a good listener - and I like it. I have empathy for most people. It's weird - because I'm an introvert (though I try not to be).
I'm terrible at meeting new people at social events. But on a 1-on-1, I can make friends with almost anyone. I try to learn anything I can from anyone I know- I believe that can lead to true wisdom.

I'm 27, making the high amounts of money people make in the tech industry.
I'll probably make half that money in any sort of therapy, and needless to say it might take 5 years of studying before I can start practicing (if I choose the Psychology route).
If I make this change, maybe I'll find myself in 5 years in the same situation - feeling very detached doing therapy...

What do you make out of this? How would you try to understand if this is a wise choice, before going the whole way?
Thank you for reading this,
Kamill

 

[littlemissmaya]

can you take the counselling path on a part-time / casual basis? sort of like, try before you buy. perhaps do some shorter counselling courses (if there are any) and use those skills to help people in your community, outside the hours of your full-time engineering / programming role. see if it suits you and if you want to do that as a job before engaging on a full commitment. i'm in quite a similar fix, except for the military experience.

 

[QuickTwist]

If I was you I would make a pro's and con's list of some sort and try to whittle away at if its the best choice to do a 180 in terms of employment. I cannot say if it is the best choice for you because I am not you. If you have already made a pros and cons list I apologies that my help was not needed.

 

[Radiantshadow]

If I were in your shoes, I would consider seeking personal therapy simply to see what it's like and if the process will really jell with you. Therapy could also help determine if there's anything else behind your sense of detachment and dissatisfaction. Psychotherapy is a very different game than programming and data analysis, and can quickly lead to compassion fatigue/burnout if one is not careful. The world can always use more healers, IMO; it's demanding in ways that many careers are not, but the work itself is extraordinarily rich and meaningful if you really enjoy assisting others on their journey through life.

 

[aiyla]

Have you considered helping professions that aren't necessarily the traditional types of therapy? By traditional, I mean the usual clinical/counseling psychologist, psychiatrist, etc.
Yes, there's probably a significant pay cut, but if you're not happy with your career now you should find one that does make you happy. I would recommend exploring the different fields and job titles to find one you think suits you best before you commit to any changes.

You didn't mention a specific population you'd like to work with so here are a few options I've found through a Google search:

1. Health Education / Promotion Specialist

"Health educators plan and facilitate educational programs designed to improve the health of children, adults, and communities. Issues addressed by health educators include disease prevention, adolescent sexuality, pregnancy and childbirth, smoking cessation, substance abuse, child safety, and environmental hazards. Health educators strive to promote healthy lifestyles, developing activities designed to encourage healthy eating, exercise, or stress management. Health educators work in public schools, colleges and universities, public health departments, hospitals and managed care settings, non-profit community organizations, and business/industry."​

2. Occupational Therapist

"Occupational therapists (OTs) work with people with physical, developmental, or emotional problems who need specialized care to live independent, productive, and satisfying lives. In contrast to talking therapies, interventions tend to be action-oriented. For example, for clients with physical disabilities, OTs might teach self-care skills, skills needed for employment, or skills necessary for caring for a home and family. With clients with psychological disorders, the OT program might involve assistance in time management, working productively with others, and leisure time. OTs can be found in a variety of medical settings, including general, rehabilitation, and psychiatric hospitals; nursing homes; community agencies and mental health centers; and home health care agencies."​

3. Applied Behavior Analyst

"Behavioral analysts help individuals modify destructive behaviors such as drug use, alcohol addiction or anger issues. They might work with adolescents struggling with behavior issues or adults trying to overcome substance abuse. A career as a behavioral analyst offers a variety of work settings to choose from, in addition to a competitive living wage. Analysts can either work independently or for hospitals, group homes, clinics and drug treatment facilities. Salaries vary by work setting. Behavioral analysts can increase their income potential by adding certifications or earning a Master’s degree."​

There are also options outside of therapy like Athletic Training, Nursing, Physician Assistant, DO/MD, or (with your engineering background) Prothetist/Prosthetic Engineering, or Mathematical Biology that have varying levels of patient/provider contact and therefore varying levels of "healer" fulfillment. I can empathize with your struggle since I have just recently changed my thoughts on careers from Data Scientist to medical professional. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful information.

 

[Radiantshadow]

Have you considered helping professions that aren't necessarily the traditional types of therapy? By traditional, I mean the usual clinical/counseling psychologist, psychiatrist, etc.
Yes, there's probably a significant pay cut, but if you're not happy with your career now you should find one that does make you happy. I would recommend exploring the different fields and job titles to find one you think suits you best before you commit to any changes.

You didn't mention a specific population you'd like to work with so here are a few options I've found through a Google search:

1. Health Education / Promotion Specialist

"Health educators plan and facilitate educational programs designed to improve the health of children, adults, and communities. Issues addressed by health educators include disease prevention, adolescent sexuality, pregnancy and childbirth, smoking cessation, substance abuse, child safety, and environmental hazards. Health educators strive to promote healthy lifestyles, developing activities designed to encourage healthy eating, exercise, or stress management. Health educators work in public schools, colleges and universities, public health departments, hospitals and managed care settings, non-profit community organizations, and business/industry."​

2. Occupational Therapist

"Occupational therapists (OTs) work with people with physical, developmental, or emotional problems who need specialized care to live independent, productive, and satisfying lives. In contrast to talking therapies, interventions tend to be action-oriented. For example, for clients with physical disabilities, OTs might teach self-care skills, skills needed for employment, or skills necessary for caring for a home and family. With clients with psychological disorders, the OT program might involve assistance in time management, working productively with others, and leisure time. OTs can be found in a variety of medical settings, including general, rehabilitation, and psychiatric hospitals; nursing homes; community agencies and mental health centers; and home health care agencies."​

3. Applied Behavior Analyst

"Behavioral analysts help individuals modify destructive behaviors such as drug use, alcohol addiction or anger issues. They might work with adolescents struggling with behavior issues or adults trying to overcome substance abuse. A career as a behavioral analyst offers a variety of work settings to choose from, in addition to a competitive living wage. Analysts can either work independently or for hospitals, group homes, clinics and drug treatment facilities. Salaries vary by work setting. Behavioral analysts can increase their income potential by adding certifications or earning a Master’s degree."​

There are also options outside of therapy like Athletic Training, Nursing, Physician Assistant, DO/MD, or (with your engineering background) Prothetist/Prosthetic Engineering, or Mathematical Biology that have varying levels of patient/provider contact and therefore varying levels of "healer" fulfillment. I can empathize with your struggle since I have just recently changed my thoughts on careers from Data Scientist to medical professional. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful information.

Overall, this is good advice. If the OP, or others, would like more information about Applied Behavior Analysis, feel free to message me. I work in the field and would be happy to discuss what it's like. Alternatively, a quick and thorough guide to the principles and operation of ABA can be found in B.F. Skinner's book "Science and Human Behavior".

Another field of psychology that is not discussed much, despite its growing research base and utility, is neuropsychology. Alongside training in all of the psychotherapies, neuropsychologists receive additional education in neuroscience in order to assess and treat brain-related disorders and deficits. They are also the masters of giving and interpreting psychological tests, which often allows them to efficiently differentiate between the subtle differences of some disorders that might otherwise be overlooked or misdiagnosed.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

If I make this change, maybe I'll find myself in 5 years in the same situation - feeling very detached doing therapy...

Maybe, and probably. I find it more reasonable to switch who you work for, not your career. Your work environment can vary drastically with different companies. What you actually do probably doesn't matter as much so as long as you are able to.

I've thought of switching careers, and some of what you touched on are things I thought of. I'd come to the conclusion that if I were to change careers, it would be to expose myself to different environments/situations/people/experience.

 

[jennerb]

I am facing a similar decision in that what I'd like to do would necessitate going back to school, hence delaying the "start" of my new career for another 2 to 6 years. I am currently making the most money I've ever made in my life to sit by a phone and pick it up if it rings. I have a BS in biochemistry and have worked in a hospital and in a QC lab for a pharmaceutical contract manufacturer, and I can definitely relate to not wanting to get out of bed in the morning because it seems pointless. One thing about INFJness that's always rung true for me is the need to feel that what we're doing is serving some higher purpose, some sort of "noble" cause, if that's the right word. "Helping" people, as you say. Our life/work has to align with our ideals, either directly or indirectly, or we get out of balance. I have always been drawn to psychology/brain stuff myself, but so many people have told me it's difficult to find employment, and I'm rather reluctant to put money into school for something that might not help my employability.

Another thought to consider, which I've been asking myself: is it possible that the drive to go back to school to study psychology is partly because school is a comfort zone? It sounds like you loved being a student, as I did. I was good at it, it was stimulating, the schedule is flexible, it's solitary in many ways (which I love as an introvert), there's lots of alone time studying, it's building towards an end goal, a new beginning... It's just all-around good times. Is it possible that you and I are simply being nostalgic and wanting to return to an earlier and simpler time in our lives, and at the end of it, we'd actually be in the same position when it came to having to adjust to a humdrum workaday life?

Yet another thought: money. Yes, money isn't everything, and everyone says to do what you love. But for myself, I'd like to have a family someday, and I'm not going to get any younger. Raising children costs money, and going back to school to start a new career path would mean negative money. I don't love my job, but it sure is nice to get that paycheck. I'm trying so hard to convince myself that sitting at a desk all day waiting for the phone to ring (which only happened maybe 5 times yesterday, in 8 hours) is worth the paycheck. I'm so bored all day at work that I have no energy when I get home. And then I complain to my brother who is teaching English in South Korea and feels way in over his head, and he tells me he stays in his classroom working on his lessons for the next day until 10 pm when the guard comes and shuts off the lights. I don't want that either. There's gotta be a happy medium, right?? And I wonder if I had more of a "life" it would help me to find a better work/life balance. Right now I feel the drive to be able to commit to a career that serves mankind, but if I have a child, my attention will likely be more focused on my home life rather than my career, and maybe just getting that paycheck would be enough if it meant the rest of my time could be spent with my family, without additional work pressure/stress.

Anyways, not to ramble on about my own situation excessively. Just wanted to mention a few other considerations! I'll be very curious to hear what you decide. I'm probably going to submit an application for a PhD program and decide what to do if I actually get accepted.

 

[jennerb]

If I were in your shoes, I would consider seeking personal therapy simply to see what it's like and if the process will really jell with you. Therapy could also help determine if there's anything else behind your sense of detachment and dissatisfaction.

I second this. There are many different kinds of therapists and many schools of thought behind what makes a good therapist. I had the experience of detachment/dissatisfaction at several different jobs in a row, and since the tasks I was doing were very different, I had to consider that the problem might be IN me rather than caused by my surroundings. But if you do see a therapist, don't feel obligated to continue if you don't "click" with them. If it's not a good fit and you don't feel comfortable talking with them, it's not going to do any good.

 

[Vict]

Five years is a good run. A hell of a lot changes in five years.

 

[Kamill]

Thank you all for taking the time to read and share your advice...!
I don't take it for granted that anyone would to take their time to read, analyse and advise.
After reading, thinking and talking about this, I think my plan for the near future is:

1. Go to a therapist - clearly there are some issues I need to deal with,
2. Volunteer in an organization which allows people in distress to call in and just talk with volunteers (after several months of training). It won't interfere with my current job, and hopefully will allow me to understand if being a therapist is a good choice.

Thank you,
Kamill

 

[Alomoes]

Engineering is for the hard working diligent people, I've learned, IE my brother. I'm a slacker, and proud to be one. Seeing how you were in the military, I understand why you chose to become an engineer, but if you are a slacker like me, but want to help people, psychology is probably better. Don't know what type of psychology, and it doesn't matter, as long as I learn.

 

[Solongo]

Depends on what you are willing to sacrifice if you pursue types of counseling or psychology careers. Sounds like it will be the comfort and security that comes with earning good amount of money.

As an INFJ you will feel this call to help and aide throughout your whole life. Now that you are awakened to this part of yourself; it makes it harder to continue on the path you thought you enjoyed. And probably you still enjoy it. but there are many ways to help and aid than being a counselor or a psychologist. Counseling industry is a very energy draining industry with very few applauds for the services you will give.

If I was you; I will continue to utilize those previous engineering experiences and work on bridging what you know with what you desire to do. This will involve research and continuing to learn about yourself and exploring niche specific areas. You are still very young and you don't have to make swift changes. Take your time and explore your options; because whatever you decide upon has to feel right for you on many levels.

 

[Mohamed Hussien Ismail]

Actually I am surprised that everyone advises you to be more wise, think about money, carefully assess the risks, be afraid, die doing something meaningless to you. As an INFJ I tell you, dearest, GO FOR YOUR DREAM. Of course, engeneering/programming doesn't suite you. Counseling and psychology suites you. Studying and research suite you.

If you don't have a family that you are responsible for or a dying mother whom you are taking care of. Just take the risk and do you niche. People live and die and never know what the hell they have been doing for their whole lives.

I don't imply doing the shift without enough proper planning. No.

Plan very well make an easy smooth shift, but start now. Fifties are too soon, make your move now or live the rest of you life thinking " What a materialistic coward was I?"

 

[LoobyLoo1981]

I'm in total agreement with Mohamed - dreams are just dreams unless you make them a reality. Of course you need to alter your life in a structured way and consider things carefully, but eventually if you feel compelled to do something that you can't explain and the feeling is just there, then surely you are meant to do it?

I reached a similar place last September. Different fields but a crossroads none the less. I had a very well paid, full time job with career prospects and recognition I had craved for years with the same company. And yet I handed in my notice after being offered the promotion. I now live on the breadline and work part time only to pay my rent. I struggle every single day but I'm doing that very thing that I feel compelled to do. And I love it - even on the bad days.

You can do anything you want to do, if you really want to do it

 

[Artisan]

What do you make out of this? How would you try to understand if this is a wise choice, before going the whole way?
Thank you for reading this,
Kamill

Kamill,

I would not recommend switching careers.
I definitely do recommend following littlemissmaya's advice of: "try before you buy".
You could also consider working less hours and do something fulfilling for you and your community.
Perhaps some volunteer work like keeping old people company, set up community projects, or perhaps there is something from among here that resonates with you:
http://lancaster.unl.edu/4h/serviceideas.shtml.

See the thing is, there are so many psychologists, and so few actually land a job in this because of that.
And truthfully, not many people seek out psychologists or counselors, they cost money.
But there is a lot of stuff out there that helps improve peoples lives, that can give the fulfillment you seek.
You're also a lot more likely to keep your current kind of job when economies become too unstable.

 

[the]

you haven't made a good case for changing careers. You should consider doing the same thing in a different capacity.

 

[Disclosed]

Kamill, I tried a similar switch from IT (worked as an infrastructure engineer) to philosophy. I actually graduated the 4 year Bachelor program in philosophy and thought about teaching in university. But towards the 3rd year of study program I understood it's not for me. So after graduation I returned to IT. I have found that being a team lead, division manager and now an IT start-up founder allows me to help people grow. It adds stress because of all the business responsibility, finances etc. but I have people in my team who help me with this, all the capital raising, finances, sales, marketing, office management. It's still not easy and I fantasize of making enough money to support my family and changing to something more humanitarian.

Another thing I recommend for any INFJ is group phychoterapy, especially during winter months. It allows me to grow personally and at the same time help others. This has been probably the most exciting thing in my life for the past two years. Additionally I am in individual psychoterapy for the past 10 years. I view it as a regular personality excercise. Sorry for using "I" so much, just don't know how else to pass the message. Hope this helps.

Gatis

 

[TheHornedOne]

Bro, I couldn't believe it when I saw the title of this post.... why? Because I am also a 27-year-old Engineer considering career change to Psychology!

Firstly, thanks to all the people that have replied. You have all put your greatest wisdom and effort into your responses, and I hope they helped Kamill as much as they helped me.

My situation is very similar: I have been graduated 5 years, but I studied Electrical Engineering and now work in Substation Design. So standard: great salary, job security, professional recognition... all great things to be thankful for. A great job all round. The one difference for me is that I struggle with my job, it takes up all of my energy and my boss is a completely non-empathetic perfectionist (definitely not an INFJ!). So I have reason to move job/company/career anyway.

But I feel the same as you... something missing, something not quite right. Some of my fellow Engineers are definitely meant to be Engineers. They care so much about... things! Equipment, boxes, wires! They turn them on, so to speak Not me though. I like the equations and numbers, but what I've noticed myself gravitating towards at work without any real reason is helping people. When I did the Myers-Briggs test and read the INFJ profile I had the same experience as you; it was like someone had been following me for years and recorded all my deepest drives and logged all my frustrations in the workplace.

Something's missing. Us INFJ's need to be satisfied on a deeper level. Now, I'm usually pretty terrible at realism and common sense (which begs the question why I'm in Engineering), but for this particular predicament of ours I think I have thought things out pretty sensibly:

What is a job? It's something that we spend most of our waking hours doing, from which we hope to get various things. Are you familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs? In ancient times we spent our days hunting and gathering, looking for shelter, then chilling and painting caves. This provided our needs of food, warmth, shelter and finally FULFILLMENT, this last one being met only after the first ones.

Nowadays, our jobs have the same role as this activity. We trade our time/effort for money and fulfillment. The money buys us the food and shelter we need, and entertainment too.

I'm sure some of the same thoughts have crossed our minds: Shouldn't I be happy with such a good job? Wouldn't a poor person from India or Ethiopia kill for this job?

If, like me, you live in the developed world then you are in a very privileged position of having the luxury to think about these things. People in poor countries have to work from the moment they wake up until bedtime just to eat. Luckily, that's not our situation.

So, the way I see it is, like someone above said: if you don't have any responsibilities (children, parents to support) other than yourself, then what use of your time and effort is going to provide you with the BEST overall happiness? Consider indeed whether you need to be working at a sufficient professional level in order to be happy (in yourself, not for your parents or peers). Consider also whether having limited money would cause you to be unhappy, and to what degree.

But consider also, that despite the professional level and salary of your current job, it is NOT making you happy. Phoning in sick because your not spending your time in a meaningful way is not happiness. If you had people to support, then not having enough money would indeed cause MORE unhappiness than this due to stress. But that's not your situation.

Can you see yourself doing your current job for the rest of your life? Scratch that, life is long and people change. Can you see yourself doing it for the next 3 years? How does the thought of doing it for the next 3 years make you feel? I'm guessing not happy, not inspired, and not potentially fulfilled.

So the question is, what use of your time provides you with the best overall balance of happiness. Fulfillment, and enough money for what you need right now.

There are only 2 things that you definitely SHOULDN'T do. Number 1 is make hasty changes and end up in a worse position, in another job which doesn't fulfill you, but also doesn't pay well and is less secure. That's just pointless! Number 2 is 'nothing', i.e. don't do nothing and stay in the same predicament for years.

Luckily for you (and me) there are 3 virtually risk-free paths of investigation to go down. Number 1 is to start doing new things in your spare time that are similar to your potential new career. Volunteer for a crisis helpline, do a weekend course in Counselling and/or Psychotherapy, volunteer for non-profit organisations.

Number 2 is an extension of number 1, if number 1 goes well. Can you get away with doing a straight 40 hour week as an Engineer with no emotional investment? Or even less, part-time? And start devoting more of your energy to these "alternative" options? Then you'd get the security of Engineering, with the fulfillment of the other options.

Number 3... if your home country is anything like the UK, then they are desperate for Engineers. Do you really think that if you took 3 years out to explore other options, then changed your mind, that you wouldn't get re-hired as an Engineer? Get your finances and plans in order, and try a series of other jobs for a few years to see how you fare. If you don't like the other options as much as you thought, then you back to programming-land!

My point is, there are intermediate options that allow you to try before you buy. And you might be able to find a more unusual Engineering job/role that lets you help people more directly.

There are plenty of people in shitty jobs who are unhappy, and there are plenty of people who are in good jobs who are unhappy. You don't want to be either of those - life is too short.

There are lots of psychology graduates and not many jobs. But if your capable enough to be an Engineer, and you got behind Psych 100% there's no reason to think you wouldn't be one of the few successful ones.

Also, like someone said above, being INFJ's may mean we need to set up our own environment's that we are in control of to be happy. Like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8oE2kqVXkk

Only you can make the decision in the end. But follow the best advice from above:
1. Be sensible. Try before you buy.
2. Listen to your heart/gut. DO NOT ignore how you feel about your current job.
3. Remember that if all else fails, you can go back to Engineering.
4. Think about how you'd feel if you never explored other options. (Hint: bad!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKHTawgyKWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvfy5Enz6-c

http://www.rophydoes.com/images/memes/gift_giving/office_01.jpg


PS - I was off work last year for 6 months with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and depression. I cured myself with the help of a psychologist/therapist. I now post tips on OCD forums to help people recover. When people reply and say that my post has changed their life, it gives me more satisfaction than anything I do in Engineering. Because I know that my effort and expertise has changed someone's life in a huge way. The only question for me is whether I continue to do this in my spare time, or can do it as a career.

Peace bro!

x

 

[Awesome]

In terms of career that is suicide. Engineering is useful virtually everywhere, psychology is selective and highly popular among college students. A degree is not worth much, at all. You'll be competing with a lot of other people who did not know what they wanted to do in school and wound up with psych degrees.

If you want to make the change, take some free college level classes on it first to see if you like it. There's no point in experimenting in college, everything you do costs money. See what kind of jobs are actually available to you in the related fields, and I don't mean what kind of jobs exist but ones that you can get an internship for, and actually acquire. This is actually one of the strongest points to -not- go to college, because unless you are going into a very technical field of study where graduates either know the material or don't (such as with hard science majors) the degrees can be avoided and you can still achieve a good career.

Lastly, here's a hypothetical question: If I gave you your degree right now what would be your next course of action?