Can INFJ really act like this?

[qbox]

Hi. I have a friend (a girl, but just a friend), we are both 16 years old. I am INTP, and she claims that she is INFJ, at least that's what her test told her... Actually a few tests, because she was so into these tests a month ago or so. I've got to known her slowly and little by little. Lately, she started to tell me more about her life, not only about her feelings and thoughts, what she does every day, etc.. And I started to wonder - is she really and INFJ? The more I know her, the more she seems not to what I've seen her to be, and the less I want to be friends with her... But I'm very confused, because I don't know WHY she acts like that.
Hope you won't get bored reading it, sorry if you do.
I'm going to say what she does and what she says about what she does.

She is meeting her 2 friends during the day and 2 neighbors during the evenings. She says that she doesn't like to be with them, she is bored, but sometimes she has fun, talks a lot, etc.. On the other hand, she often says, that she is very silent and reserved near her friends. So how can she talk a lot? Also, she says that they don't talk about interesting things to her, so about what she would have fun talking then? She also says, that she doesn't share anything deeper with anybody, that information, except with her mom's friend, who is a psychologist, and with me.
She likes to go out to the cinema or pizza place with her classmates, even though she says that they are very boring and uninteresting people, and she gets bored with them, but she says that she has fun. So logically, how can one have fun while not having fun?
Another thing that is interesting about her behavior is that she is supposed to like, and says that she likes having only a few good friends, and rather not be with other people, especially strangers... However, she is meeting 2 boys, of which one she likes a lot telling from how she talks about him. She chats with him a lot, and she even moved to a county that he lives in (to her dad) recently for a month. We keep in touch using Skype, so she's told me that last week she was staying with her friend. Staying with her friend, I thought? She doesn't like to be social, at least she says so, and it should be so according to her personality... Sounded very strange. And also the fact that she wants to meet that boy, even though she says that she doesn't want relationship with anybody, nor she wants anybody close to her, except she for some reason let me closer to her than anybody else... I'm kinda jealous, even though we aren't boyfriend and a girlfriend (because she says that she doesn't want a relationship, I'm okay with that)...
As a child, she used to do a lot of crazy things, like painting on the walls, or doing crazy things to teachers, like traps, until she was 14. Then she started talking to her mom's friend, the psychologist, and she has changed. She still talks to that person once in a month...
During the time period between 13 and 16, she has met a lot of strangers (in my and her eyes - a lot), just random guys from the internet... She just met them a few times, one of these guys is that boy she is going to meet now, or already meeting, I didn't ask exactly. Another 2 boys - she never met with again, one boy - she met 3 times with, like 3 months ago, and one more boy - she is still meeting with, met 5 times with. And there's me then, she knew me from the internet too, we have met about 15 times in 6 months or so.
She also loves being with her family (like 10-15 people), even though she says that she doesn't like any crowded circumstances...

Okay, so now there are these questions that are bugging me (a lot!): why would she say that she doesn't like meeting these people, and then still do it? Still meet them?
Why would she meet that boy she seems to like (some time ago, she said that she likes me, by the way, but then she somehow convinced herself, that she doesn't like anybody, because she doesn't want any relationship), and say that she doesn't like him at all? Even move there to be able to meet with him for a month!
Why would she be so social with people that she doesn't like according to her? Why would she be so social at all, she says that she doesn't like to be social, nor her personality should make her want to be social?

All thees questions are bugging me so much! I tried asking her some of them, some of them indirectly, but she cannot answer... She says that she doesn't know why. I just don't want to hurt her by bugging her with these questions... But I want to know at least any logical and possible explanations to these 'phenomenal' activities of hers. It completely contradicts what she is saying and her personality!
I just don't know who she is...

Please comment and don't hesitate to ask anything else. I'll be glad to answer and discuss on this topic.

Thanks!

 

[bickelz]

So logically, how can one have fun while not having fun?

So like, having fun is supposed to be logical now? She might be saying that she had fun without having a blast. I know that I usually say I have fun even though it was an average experience.

And remember the part about how she's a 16 year old girl? That's the problem. Trust me, I'm the only guy in my family. They're weird. They have vaginas and stuff. It's scary.

I think you're over analyzing this girl. She likes being social for a while even if she doesn't. What she doesn't like is the fact that no one has anything of substance to say.

Also, you shouldn't take what she says as an absolute. I think you hear her saying she doesn't like social situations and then take that as she hates all social situations, which is not the case.

And honestly, people never act logically. It's chaos, the world. Ordered, in a way, but it is still chaos. Don't worry about her contradicting herself with little stuff like this and take things with a grain of salt, unless she really means it or it's serious. Such as, if you're dating, she says she's taking a nap and is putting on a dress, she's pry going out to cheat (or whatever).

 

[Wyote]

And remember the part about how she's a 16 year old girl? That's the problem. ... They're weird. They have vaginas and stuff. It's scary.

+1

 

[This]

None of those things contradict being an INFJ in my eyes they do contradict being an honest person however. As far as I can tell she seems very confused about who she really is and that may or may not be her fault she may really not have found herself out yet. What is it that you are gleaning by being friends with her? and how has her inconsistency in who she says she is effected you directly if I may ask?

 

[detectivepope]

Shes young, I was exactly the same, except I told no one how I felt and thought. I still hang out with people I'm not too hot on but its because I'd learn nothing without seeing what people are like or how they deal with it, its nice getting what you want but it breeds contempt and bias. The Internet stuff sounds dodgy though.

 

[Arsal]

I'm going to answer these according to what my motivations would be in her situation. I very much relate to everything you have written about your friend, because I am very similar.

why would she say that she doesn't like meeting these people, and then still do it? Still meet them?

Perhaps, because she likes their company. Saying that she does not like them is probably her way of letting you know that she finds it frustrating that these people are not similar to her, and that she cannot connect with them on a deeper level.

If you're planning on befriending an INFJ, be wary of this: their vocabulary is not precise. It is meant to evoke moods, feelings and tones, not precision. They will often exaggerate experiences and use overstatements in order for you to feel the intensity of their mood. Do not take the definitions at face value; there is often an added subjective depth to their choice of words, which is based around their impressions of the world.

Why would she meet that boy she seems to like (some time ago, she said that she likes me, by the way, but then she somehow convinced herself, that she doesn't like anybody, because she doesn't want any relationship), and say that she doesn't like him at all? Even move there to be able to meet with him for a month!

Fear of commitment, fear of separation. Introverted Perception types (IxxJ) are very, very whimsical. They do not come to conclusions through rational, deductive means like Introverted Judgment types (IxxP). You probably want her to make sense, because that's how you act, but in truth, most IxxJ types are very irrational, and very whimsical. They do not readily understand what they are feeling, why they are feeling, and how they should act. I would ask you to be a little patient with your friend, because she is probably just as confused as you are.

Why would she be so social with people that she doesn't like according to her? Why would she be so social at all, she says that she doesn't like to be social, nor her personality should make her want to be social?

This here is a little thing called Introverted Perception. It really boggles many people, even probably herself. Introverted Perception creates an idealized worldview of how things should be, and then works off of that. However, sometimes, what we feel should be is not the same as what is. Sometimes I'll rationally deduce that something is best for me, and then do the exact opposite because I feel like it. This is not deliberate lying on my part, I'm not being dishonest. I'm just not sure about how exactly I feel about something, which often cannot be deduced through logic alone. Your friend is possibly the same.

Not sure if this helps, but to answer your question: yes, your friend is a certified Pi-dominant, INFJ.

 

[qbox]

None of those things contradict being an INFJ in my eyes they do contradict being an honest person however. As far as I can tell she seems very confused about who she really is and that may or may not be her fault she may really not have found herself out yet. What is it that you are gleaning by being friends with her? and how has her inconsistency in who she says she is effected you directly if I may ask?

Yes, that is what I perceived - she seems very confused about who she is - a chaotic and extroverted person, or a calm and introverted one, as she used to be different as a child.
Gleaning... Well, I don't have a good friend myself, and I was aiming for her to be a good friend of mine. However, I have a lot of values, and I want a lot from another person, as I am ready to give a lot myself. This includes the way the other person (a friend of mine) acts with me and others. Might sound silly, but this is just who I am.
Well... It affects me in a strange way... I want to be good friends with her, but we are both kinda shy, especially in deep conversations, so it's not easy for neither of us to do it, open to each other. She has opened more than I did, however... So anyway, the direct effect on me is confusion. I'm very confused if I want to be friends with her, one minute I do, but the other - I'm not sure because of some of her actions, the way she is extroverted at times, and the way she is bumping around the room, trying to find something, that's by meeting random people. Also it just doesn't feel right, even makes me want to help her to find that something. Hard to explain, INTPs are not good at expressing emotional thoughts, sorry.
Speaking of help - how should (and should I) confront her about this? Help her find her true self? I think that opening up myself would help her feel more comfortable and open up herself more.

[MENTION=3538]Arsal[/MENTION]: Thanks for very descriptive thoughts!

Perhaps, because she likes their company. Saying that she does not like them is probably her way of letting you know that she finds it frustrating that these people are not similar to her, and that she cannot connect with them on a deeper level.

But if you cannot connect on a deeper level, you don't really enjoy the company... Or that's just me. I don't know, just thinking aloud.

Fear of commitment, fear of separation. Introverted Perception types (IxxJ) are very, very whimsical. They do not come to conclusions through rational, deductive means like Introverted Judgment types (IxxP). You probably want her to make sense, because that's how you act, but in truth, most IxxJ types are very irrational, and very whimsical. They do not readily understand what they are feeling, why they are feeling, and how they should act. I would ask you to be a little patient with your friend, because she is probably just as confused as you are.

But if INFJs are that way, what to wait for? Or you mean to be patient until she finds out who she is and what she wants? Sorry, didn't understood you completely, as an excuse is that it's been a hard day and it's late here. :/

This here is a little thing called Introverted Perception. It really boggles many people, even probably herself. Introverted Perception creates an idealized worldview of how things should be, and then works off of that. However, sometimes, what we feel should be is not the same as what is. Sometimes I'll rationally deduce that something is best for me, and then do the exact opposite because I feel like it. This is not deliberate lying on my part, I'm not being dishonest. I'm just not sure about how exactly I feel about something, which often cannot be deduced through logic alone. Your friend is possibly the same.

So if we would take the thing with that boy she seems to like, and the fact that she is trying to make herself to believe that she doesn't want a deeper relationship with anybody, and add the idealization, we could probably say that she could go for the relationship thing, even if she thinks that she doesn't want it? Like doing the completely opposite thing?
P.S. This is a known feeling for me, strangely. It doesn't sound as an TP's thing. I started to fight it off recently though.

 

[Arsal]

But if you cannot connect on a deeper level, you don't really enjoy the company... Or that's just me. I don't know, just thinking aloud.

Not necessarily. Sometimes all you need is company, not an emotional connection. She may be rejecting this part of herself consciously.

But if INFJs are that way, what to wait for? Or you mean to be patient until she finds out who she is and what she wants? Sorry, didn't understood you completely, as an excuse is that it's been a hard day and it's late here. :/

I mean, patient as in... not to judge her too quickly for her seemingly contradictory behavior.

So if we would take the thing with that boy she seems to like, and the fact that she is trying to make herself to believe that she doesn't want a deeper relationship with anybody, and add the idealization, we could probably say that she could go for the relationship thing, even if she thinks that she doesn't want it? Like doing the completely opposite thing?

Yep.

 

[qbox]

I mean, patient as in... not to judge her too quickly for her seemingly contradictory behavior.

Hm, that is a good point... But I still will have to judge (make an opinion to one side or another) at some point... You cannot just wait and let it flow, I want to do something about it, I mean... Influence it, help her with it, if possible.

And by the way, I cannot help to notice that she seems to be running from something, like deeper relationship. Not only say that she doesn't want it, but leaving friends that gotten closer to her, she left 2 friends because of that, but she is blaming herself and feeling bad about it though. She still left them, because she has opened to them too much in her eyes. So I'd say this is a 'running' behavior.

 

[bickelz]

Yes, that is what I perceived - she seems very confused about who she is - a chaotic and extroverted person, or a calm and introverted one

There are chaotic introverts and clam extroverts. NF's are fairly chaotic actually.
Gleaning... Well, I don't have a good friend myself, and I was aiming for her to be a good friend of mine. However, I have a lot of values, and I want a lot from another person, as I am ready to give a lot myself. This includes the way the other person (a friend of mine) acts with me and others. Might sound silly, but this is just who I am.

But if you cannot connect on a deeper level, you don't really enjoy the company... Or that's just me. I don't know, just thinking aloud.

Not necessarily. She may want a distraction.

But if INFJs are that way, what to wait for? Or you mean to be patient until she finds out who she is and what she wants? Sorry, didn't understood you completely, as an excuse is that it's been a hard day and it's late here. :/

What was meant was to just take what your friend says with a grain of salt. She really doesn't mean what she says. It's a bit cliche and I hate saying things like this but infj speech is more expressionistic than literal. We speak based on a feeling a word emotes rather than what it denotes. That's why it's easy for us to pick up a romantic language such as spanish, french or italian. Since she's young, she probably hasn't developed Ti very well (which is your lead function) so she's more about the intuition and emotion of language than how literal it is.

So if we would take the thing with that boy she seems to like, and the fact that she is trying to make herself to believe that she doesn't want a deeper relationship with anybody, and add the idealization, we could probably say that she could go for the relationship thing, even if she thinks that she doesn't want it? Like doing the completely opposite thing?

Yep. Ah, indecisiveness. I go through this all the time. I want to be in a relationship, then I don't. I want to go out and do stuff, then I don't. I need to start working out again but here I sit on the couch.

She doesn't want to make a decision. She may not like the openness of not making a decision but she secretly hates making them because that means having to do things differently. She may like where she's at, she may hate it. She may want to do something about it but not want to make a decision right now about which decision to make because she might find something better later on.

P.S. This is a known feeling for me, strangely. It doesn't sound as an TP's thing. I started to fight it off recently though.

From an F to a T, don't be afraid of your emotions and definitely don't fight them.

 

[bickelz]

Hm, that is a good point... But I still will have to judge (make an opinion to one side or another) at some point... You cannot just wait and let it flow, I want to do something about it, I mean... Influence it, help her with it, if possible.

You can judge but you don't have to act or speak about how you judge. You could choose to just let things happen. She will eventually open up if you let her know that she can trust you. But don't pry or ask, this will take time. You just have to be there. I you ask, be general, not specific. Like "How're you doing?" or if she seems upset "You seem upset, do you want to talk about something?"

And by the way, I cannot help to notice that she seems to be running from something, like deeper relationship. Not only say that she doesn't want it, but leaving friends that gotten closer to her, she left 2 friends because of that, but she is blaming herself and feeling bad about it though. She still left them, because she has opened to them too much in her eyes. So I'd say this is a 'running' behavior.

This could be from a myriad of possibilities. It could be something from her past that makes it so that she does not want close relationships (parents divorce or an ex (which seems unlikely at 16)). But if we're talking about a textbook infj, we do this as a defense mechanism. It is hard for us to open up and we're very guarded. It's almost an unconscious thing but it happens. She may not even realize that she does it.

 

[Arsal]

And by the way, I cannot help to notice that she seems to be running from something, like deeper relationship. Not only say that she doesn't want it, but leaving friends that gotten closer to her, she left 2 friends because of that, but she is blaming herself and feeling bad about it though. She still left them, because she has opened to them too much in her eyes. So I'd say this is a 'running' behavior.

She possibly dumped them because she feels those friends are incapable of appreciating or understanding her fully, and therefore, unworthy of getting to know her deeply. And by a mistake or whim or another, that they do let on their real selves in front of these people, she might feel so vulnerable that she dumped them. Because in her Pi-worldview, the only people who deserve to know her fully are very specific people with specific requirements and the people she dumped unfortunately did not qualify.

PS. This girl sounds almost exactly like myself, lol.

 

[qbox]

There are chaotic introverts and clam extroverts. NF's are fairly chaotic actually.

That sounds strange, as I always imagined that introverts are actually keeping everything to themselves, and being chaotic means that you have to express it. I guess it's very true though...

Not necessarily. She may want a distraction.

That's a very good point! Never thought of it, but when you mentioned it, it reminds me what I used to do 2 years ago! Going out with people i don't like nor have interest being with only to distract myself from other things!

That's why it's easy for us to pick up a romantic language such as spanish, french or italian.

That is an interesting point, I noticed it at some time, but I discarded it as an illogical observation. Although, if an FJ says so, I must've been right after all...

She doesn't want to make a decision. She may not like the openness of not making a decision but she secretly hates making them because that means having to do things differently. She may like where she's at, she may hate it. She may want to do something about it but not want to make a decision right now about which decision to make because she might find something better later on.

Interesting, I also thought, at some point, that she doesn't want to make decisions, especially those that might somehow influence her life heavily, or those with a big chance of losing something.
She also tells me that she hates where she is though, she wants a change in her life, but she denies that need. In other words, she understands and thinks that she needs a change in her life, but she is afraid to make a change and doesn't change anything... Or at least it seems so to me. Maybe she IS changing something, because she started to meet all these people only like one year ago, especially boys. Maybe she is trying to change her life after all...

From an F to a T, don't be afraid of your emotions and definitely don't fight them.

It's not easy to have many emotions when you don't have many friends, or friends at all. (close friends) It's easier not to be able to a theory about quantum physics and a black hole than not be able to share a deep feeling about something. I started to fight emotions a few years ago, when I started to form more and started to think more, and didn't have any friend to share it with. I think that I might've been an INFJ at the time, I have a lot in common with the description of them, I still do, but the difference is that I'm hiding it deep in me and I don't allow it to go out. I guess it goes out anyway, in a form of loneliness...

PS. This girl sounds almost exactly like myself, lol.

You seem to explain the actions of her quite well... I'd really love to hear more from you about her, lol. Seriously, it helps to understand her, however strange this might sound.

 

[qbox]

This could be from a myriad of possibilities. It could be something from her past that makes it so that she does not want close relationships (parents divorce or an ex (which seems unlikely at 16)). But if we're talking about a textbook infj, we do this as a defense mechanism. It is hard for us to open up and we're very guarded. It's almost an unconscious thing but it happens. She may not even realize that she does it.

Ugh, sorry, missed your post at first... I must've been really sleep. Woke up now and couldn't sleep, so decided to check the forums, answer something and maybe fall asleep.
No, she doesn't have any past relationships, she never did. However she seems to be wounded at the core for some reason... She seems to be sure that she is worthless and nobody likes her and all that. She has told me that there is one big cause for all her trouble of the thinking and all, but she refused to tell me that. I was okay with it, it takes time to be able to talk about the deepest things.

 

[Kmal]

not understanding an INFJ [female, at that] [16, at that]

surprising. no need to understand her-- acceptance would probably be better for your relationship.

 

[aeon]

Hi. I have a friend (a girl, but just a friend), we are both 16 years old. I am INTP, and she claims that she is INFJ, at least that's what her test told her... Actually a few tests, because she was so into these tests a month ago or so. I've got to known her slowly and little by little. Lately, she started to tell me more about her life, not only about her feelings and thoughts, what she does every day, etc.. And I started to wonder - is she really and INFJ? The more I know her, the more she seems not to what I've seen her to be, and the less I want to be friends with her... But I'm very confused, because I don't know WHY she acts like that.

That’s the first step of a deepening intimacy, the knowing of someone — when they show you who they really are, and in return, you can demonstrate if you are willing to receive them and accept them as they are, and that you are willing to let go of your idea of them, and the expectations which can come out of that.

She is meeting her 2 friends during the day and 2 neighbors during the evenings. She says that she doesn't like to be with them, she is bored, but sometimes she has fun, talks a lot, etc.. On the other hand, she often says, that she is very silent and reserved near her friends. So how can she talk a lot? Also, she says that they don't talk about interesting things to her, so about what she would have fun talking then?

My sense is that little is black and white. I would guess her experience in general is to be quiet, is one of being bored, and is one of not liking being in their presence. On the other hand, she said she sometimes has fun and talks a lot. Also, people find enjoyment in many things, and not all of them are so interesting to them, even when they are laughing.

She likes to go out to the cinema or pizza place with her classmates, even though she says that they are very boring and uninteresting people, and she gets bored with them, but she says that she has fun. So logically, how can one have fun while not having fun?

She never said she wasn’t having fun. It seems you are equating being in the company of people with whom you experience boredom and a lack of interest with not having fun. This is true for many, but not all, and perhaps it is not true for her.

Another thing that is interesting about her behavior is that she is supposed to like, and says that she likes having only a few good friends, and rather not be with other people, especially strangers... However, she is meeting 2 boys, of which one she likes a lot telling from how she talks about him. She chats with him a lot, and she even moved to a county that he lives in (to her dad) recently for a month. We keep in touch using Skype, so she's told me that last week she was staying with her friend. Staying with her friend, I thought? She doesn't like to be social, at least she says so, and it should be so according to her personality... Sounded very strange. And also the fact that she wants to meet that boy, even though she says that she doesn't want relationship with anybody, nor she wants anybody close to her, except she for some reason let me closer to her than anybody else... I'm kinda jealous, even though we aren't boyfriend and a girlfriend (because she says that she doesn't want a relationship, I'm okay with that)...

In those things that do not make sense to you, it might be of benefit to ask her to help you understand. Based on what she tells you, and the feedback you give her, she can either confirm or deny that you have understood her.

16 year-olds of both sexes often have interest in others their age, regardless of what they say their intentions are. This doesn’t make them inconsistent or duplicitous — it makes them human.

As it regards your jealousy, take some comfort in the fact you have recognized it and are willing to express (at least to yourself and this forum) your emotional self. That is, from my perspective, a demonstration of maturity at any age. Consider taking that information (the emotion) as something by which to explore yourself and your situation even more deeply. You might be surprised by what you find, especially if it speaks to personal truths divergent from your stated ideals and goals.

As a child, she used to do a lot of crazy things, like painting on the walls,

Many children do those things. You can call it crazy if you want, but I don’t understand how that is productive.

or doing crazy things to teachers, like traps, until she was 14. Then she started talking to her mom's friend, the psychologist, and she has changed. She still talks to that person once in a month...

I saw a psychologist as a teenager — and a psychiatrist too. I don’t have the sense it is that uncommon to see a counselor of some form at that age, whether medical or otherwise.

During the time period between 13 and 16, she has met a lot of strangers (in my and her eyes - a lot), just random guys from the internet... She just met them a few times, one of these guys is that boy she is going to meet now, or already meeting, I didn't ask exactly. Another 2 boys - she never met with again, one boy - she met 3 times with, like 3 months ago, and one more boy - she is still meeting with, met 5 times with. And there's me then, she knew me from the internet too, we have met about 15 times in 6 months or so.

Sounds like individuation and development of the social self in the 21st century.

She also loves being with her family (like 10-15 people), even though she says that she doesn't like any crowded circumstances...

Well, you know family is always played with different rules, with different degrees of allowance. And then there is the obligation factor, heh.

Okay, so now there are these questions that are bugging me (a lot!): why would she say that she doesn't like meeting these people, and then still do it? Still meet them?

In part, because people don’t only do what they like to do.

Why would she meet that boy she seems to like (some time ago, she said that she likes me, by the way, but then she somehow convinced herself, that she doesn't like anybody, because she doesn't want any relationship), and say that she doesn't like him at all? Even move there to be able to meet with him for a month!

Because people (men and women, boys and girls both) often say one thing when their intention and their feeling is otherwise. The list of reasons are long, but for a 16-year-old, it’s often because they have the sense they will be judged negatively for being honest about their experience and intentions, as well as their degree of self-awareness given the state of their neural and brain development at that age, as well as their desire to not hurt others with the truth if they sense truth would be hurtful to someone they genuinely care about.

Why would she be so social with people that she doesn't like according to her? Why would she be so social at all, she says that she doesn't like to be social, nor her personality should make her want to be social?

People have social needs regardless of their preferences inasmuch as we are social animals. Also, if you think her personality shouldn’t make her want to be social, and this is based on her typing as an INFJ, I would suggest you develop a better understanding of Introversion and Extroversion as used within MBTI.

All thees questions are bugging me so much! I tried asking her some of them, some of them indirectly, but she cannot answer... She says that she doesn't know why. I just don't want to hurt her by bugging her with these questions... But I want to know at least any logical and possible explanations to these 'phenomenal' activities of hers. It completely contradicts what she is saying and her personality!
I just don't know who she is...

Human beings developed logic, and a wonderful thing it is — but as a tool, logic is neither broad or deep enough to be used in analysis of many things in the world, people first and foremost among them.

If you wish to be heard and understood, it might help to express your needs to her directly, and asking if she will help meet them. If this is done directly, and with mutual understanding as the goal (as opposed to judgment or critique), you might get your questions answered, if not your underlying needs met.

That said, if the reason you have these questions is because you are trying to shoehorn a person into a box based on the results of an MBTI test, or you are trying to know her by applying a system of logic to observation of her behaviors, or because you are more comfortable with your idea of who she is as opposed to who she actually is, you might want to think twice about seeking answers to your questions, because:

1. it will likely do damage to your relationship with her, and,
2. these are questions for which there are no logical answers.

My sense is she has taken a risk (in being vulnerable) and given you a gift (of sharing of herself). I would suggest accepting that gift with some grace, which is to say, accept her as she is.


Namaste,
Ian

 

[Lerxst]

Without knowing all the details, your friend sounds more like the ESxx type - maybe an ESFJ or ESFP. It sounds like the psychologist (either an INFJ or practicing INFJ behavior in a lot of cases) may have instilled some sense in how she "should" or "could" act but there's still that 13 year old troublemaker at work underneath it. In other words, she learned how to talk the talk, but not walk the walk

If she really is an INFJ, then she's possibly exhibiting the "shadow" personality of this type - a lot of outgoing, self-gratuitous behavior.

 

[qbox]

That’s the first step of a deepening intimacy, the knowing of someone — when they show you who they really are, and in return, you can demonstrate if you are willing to receive them and accept them as they are, and that you are willing to let go of your idea of them, and the expectations which can come out of that.

Yea, that's what I thought, however she shows who she really is to people she doesn't know quite easily, but to me - she showed it very slowly, little by little... I'm a little confused about this behavior - was this special in a good way, or a bad one... Just some thoughts.

In those things that do not make sense to you, it might be of benefit to ask her to help you understand. Based on what she tells you, and the feedback you give her, she can either confirm or deny that you have understood her.

Yea, that is a good point... Although too many questions is invasive, and nobody likes that.

As it regards your jealousy, take some comfort in the fact you have recognized it and are willing to express (at least to yourself and this forum) your emotional self. That is, from my perspective, a demonstration of maturity at any age. Consider taking that information (the emotion) as something by which to explore yourself and your situation even more deeply. You might be surprised by what you find, especially if it speaks to personal truths divergent from your stated ideals and goals.

I like the way you put this... And yea, it is kinda surprising, especially to my personality and especially when you think about it deep enough...

Many children do those things. You can call it crazy if you want, but I don’t understand how that is productive.

True, although what she told me she used to do sounded kinda special, I've never heard of anybody doing anything alike, and I heard many stories of that young age people doing crazy things... It seems though that she is trying to forget everything, as she says that she doesn't remember it... I think that she doesn't want to remember it, because she usually has got a very good memory, especially about what happened to her. It seems like she doesn't remember just the 'mean' period of time.

I saw a psychologist as a teenager — and a psychiatrist too. I don’t have the sense it is that uncommon to see a counselor of some form at that age, whether medical or otherwise.

Yes... A lot of people did. I did too, because I was too anti-social. Didn't help though.

Sounds like individuation and development of the social self in the 21st century.

I was guessing that introverts don't do such things, judging from many people I talked to and from the online resources, psychological reviews and all that you can find online that relates to human psychology. That is why it seems strange to me.

Well, you know family is always played with different rules, with different degrees of allowance. And then there is the obligation factor, heh.

True.

In part, because people don’t only do what they like to do.

If you have a free choice, you usually choose to do what you like to do... But in this particular situation - I understand about the having fun part and all that, as you, and other this thread's participants, explained earlier, why she might be doing what she is doing.

Because people (men and women, boys and girls both) often say one thing when their intention and their feeling is otherwise. The list of reasons are long, but for a 16-year-old, it’s often because they have the sense they will be judged negatively for being honest about their experience and intentions, as well as their degree of self-awareness given the state of their neural and brain development at that age, as well as their desire to not hurt others with the truth if they sense truth would be hurtful to someone they genuinely care about.

I agree with you here. However, I am still going to discuss this concrete situation: I let her know that I will not judge her, nor I will tell anyone else. And I never do neither of these things, so she should not feel afraid of that...
As for not hurting - this might be the jackpot, as she doesn't want to hurt anybody, even if it requires a sacrifice.
She also seems to believe deeply what she is saying, which is again, as mentioned before - running mechanism.

If you wish to be heard and understood, it might help to express your needs to her directly, and asking if she will help meet them. If this is done directly, and with mutual understanding as the goal (as opposed to judgment or critique), you might get your questions answered, if not your underlying needs met.

True, though direct questions can scare somebody off... However, I am still going to ask some of them, when we meet next time, which is going to be mid-July, or later, if she'll like meeting that boy she went to.

That said, if the reason you have these questions is because you are trying to shoehorn a person into a box based on the results of an MBTI test, or you are trying to know her by applying a system of logic to observation of her behaviors, or because you are more comfortable with your idea of who she is as opposed to who she actually is, you might want to think twice about seeking answers to your questions, because:

1. it will likely do damage to your relationship with her, and,
2. these are questions for which there are no logical answers.

I am not trying to do neither of these things. As for MBTI boxing - I believe that it's impossible. Everybody is different, even twins...

My sense is she has taken a risk (in being vulnerable) and given you a gift (of sharing of herself). I would suggest accepting that gift with some grace, which is to say, accept her as she is.

She really does share a lot with me...

Without knowing all the details, your friend sounds more like the ESxx type - maybe an ESFJ or ESFP. It sounds like the psychologist (either an INFJ or practicing INFJ behavior in a lot of cases) may have instilled some sense in how she "should" or "could" act but there's still that 13 year old troublemaker at work underneath it. In other words, she learned how to talk the talk, but not walk the walk

If she really is an INFJ, then she's possibly exhibiting the "shadow" personality of this type - a lot of outgoing, self-gratuitous behavior.

Actually she sounded like she was ENFP or INFJ. Probably more of ENFP type, but she liked to lead though, others were following her, doing crazy things after her.
Yes, after she started seeing the psychologist, she said that she changed a lot and became very reserved, much shyer and introverted. She stopped being friends with many people and many other things...
Could we say that she is struggling between these two personalities, and with the help of the environment she is in is forming into one personality? I remember myself thinking, that from when I've met her, she seems to become less and less INFJ, and more and more that chaotic type, the old self. According to the environment, the type that most people are, she might've been 'changed' by the psychologist, and when she stopped meeting with her that often, she was affected more and more by the environment, and is 'changing' back into who she's been, that outgoing, chaotic personality... In other words, it seems as the 'shadow', as you put it, is consuming her and becoming her, while the INFJ is becoming a 'shadow'.
I don't know if there's any truth though, I'm not a psychologist... However if it is, I'm wondering if I should do anything about it... I mean, she says that she wants to be the calm type, but it seems as she is becoming the opposite, because of lack of calm people around, like the psychologist. If she truly wants to be that calm type, maybe I should try to help her be it somehow... I don't know if that would do any good, and if that wouldn't be selfish to think so in the first place - I don't like extroverted people much myself, and I'm looking for a good friend to help me fight loneliness...