Brahman is Atman, Atman is Brahman?

[Barnabas]

fairly simple question, which is which?

 

[88chaz88]

Fairly simple question? No. I had no idea what you were talking about and so looked up wiki.

Brahman and Atman

Some Upanishadic statements identify the Atman, the inner essence of the human being, with Brahman. While Advaita philosophy considers Brahman to be without form, qualities, or attributes, Visishtadvaita and Dvaita philosophies understand Brahman as one with infinite auspicious qualities. In Advaita, the ultimate reality is expressed as Nirguna Brahman. Nirguna means formless, attributeless, mega-soul, or spirit-only. Advaita considers all personal forms of God including Vishnu and Shiva as different aspects of God in personal form, Saguna Brahman i.e. God with attributes. In Visishtadvaita and Dvaita, God is Saguna Brahman with infinite attributes and is the source of the impersonal Nirguna Brahman, and God's energy is regarded as Devi, the Divine Mother.
The phrase that is seen to be the only possible (and still thoroughly inadequate) description of Brahman that humans, with limited minds and being, can entertain is the Sanskrit word Sacchidānanda, which is combined from sat-chit-ānanda, meaning "Being - Consciousness - Bliss".
The description of Brahman from Mandukya Upanishad:

सर्वं ह्येतद् ब्रह्मायमात्मा ब्रह्म सोयमात्मा चतुष्पात्
sarvam hyetad brahmāyamātmā brahma soyamātmā chatushpāt - Mandukya Upanishad, verse-2
​

• Translation:-

sarvam (सर्वम्)- whole/all/everything; hi (हि)- really/surely/indeed; etad (एतद्)- this here/this; brahma (ब्रह्म)- Brahma/Brahman; ayam (अयम्)- this/here; ātmā(आत्मा)- atma/atman; sah(सः)- he; ayam (अयम्)- this/here; chatus(चतुस्)- four/quadruple; pāt(पात्)- step/foot/quarter
​

• With the sandhi expanded:-

सर्वम् हि एतद् ब्रह्म अयम् आत्मा ब्रह्म सः अयम् आत्मा चतुस पात्
sarvam hi etad brahma ayam ātmā brahm sah ayam ātmā chatus paat
​

• Simple meaning:-

All indeed is this Brahman; He is Atman; He has four steps/quarters.
​

Vishnu is traditionally derived from the root "Vish" which means to enter or pervade, and He is called Vishnu because He pervades the whole universe. Brahmanda Purana (1.4.25) says that He is called as Vishnu because He has entered into everything in the universe. The most important aspect is that the whole universe is covered by only three steps of Vishnu which is referred to several times in the Vedas (Rig Veda 1.22.17, 1.154. 3, 1.155.4, Atharva Veda 7.26.5, Yajur Veda 2.25). In His three steps rests the whole universe (Rig Veda 1.154.2, Yajur Veda 23.49). All indeed is Brahman, which can thus be identified with Vishnu, based on the Vedas.

I kinda gather from this that Brahman is Atman.

I hope this helps you because I'm more confused than when I started.

 

[DoveAlexa]

Hahahahahahahaaaa!
Where did this even come from Barnabas?

 

[Puck]

I thought this was some kind of word game about Batman. Ah well, it was an interesting thread anyway

 

[Barnabas]

*Disclamer, Eastern schools of thought are confusing to those with Western views*


OK I admit, it's not an easy question. Brahman and Atman is a Eastern Pantheistic Monism (or EPM) view of the universe that is strickingly different from western thought with one exception. To be a simple as possible Brahman is everything(don't question it) and Atman is the your part of that everything. So from this view Atman is Brahman

the question "Is Atman, Braham or Is Brahman, Atman?"

EPM has to my knowledge only one western view that could be called similar which Is New Age.

In EPM the focus is on Brahman in New Age the focus is on Atman.

a little more clearly the focus in EPM is on the oness of everything

New Age thought is focused on everythings Oness with you.

So the question is are you EPM or New Age.



*I may have screwed up along the lines somewhere in this post please correct me if I have*

 

[TaylorS]

There is no Atman because the Self is an illusion.

 

[Barnabas]

There is no Atman because the Self is an illusion.

well, atman is not the self in the western sense. Brahman is everything and everything is Brahman, essentialy you and the computer I'm typing are the same thing any distinction is an illusion, the difference between you and the computer is that you have a councious mind. That is Atman Brahman capable of couciousness.

Dang, EPM is contradictory to rational western thought.

what is the sound of one hand clapping?

Ah... much better