Believing or seeing? | INFJ Forum

Believing or seeing?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Moony, Jan 4, 2019.

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  1. Moony

    Moony Newbie

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    Hello!

    Since INFJ's are known to be living paradoxes, skeptical and positive to most things, at the same time, I was wondering if you are a believing or seeing kind of person?
    Do you need proof to believe? Like, to believe in true love, soulmates, miracles, magic (not necessarily religion) or are you a believer by nature?


    (this is my first thread so please pardon me if I posted this in the wrong place!)
     
  2. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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  3. JennyDaniella

    JennyDaniella Stargazer

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    Ello earthling! *giggles* idk I just want to randomly say that.

    Hmmm, I’ve always been a spiritual kind of person, even more over time. I would say I am a mixture of a believing/seeing kind of person? I keep an open-mind about certain things, there are always some aspects we can’t always explain, especially in this expanding universe. But some various instances, I do need my logic and facts.

    So both! I am both. :smile:
     
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  4. JennyDaniella

    JennyDaniella Stargazer

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    :laughing::tearsofjoy::laughing:
     
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  5. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    What you cannot see isn't something that cannot be proven. Also, just because something isn't proven it doesn't mean it cannot be perceived.

    There are always personal limits to what we allow ourselves to believe and what seems to be too unlikely to exist in our perceived reality. The only difference is where we draw the line and what that line looks like.

    I like to pencil them in, and I have this grey area where I allow things to exist, or I wouldn't be able to move the line at all.
     
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    Moony

    Moony Newbie

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    Sounds like something an INFJ would say, haha! :smile:
    I feel a similar way, but sometimes my spirituality gets the best of me and I find myself believing in all sorts of things. Though, I'm more skeptic to other people's beliefs, but determined in my own... (Sounds weird haha!)
     
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  7. John K

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    I'm a believer - there's no other rational approach possible

     
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  8. JennyDaniella

    JennyDaniella Stargazer

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    I absolutely love Vsauce! Great YouTuber. I’m actually about to watch his How To Talk to Aliens Mindfield episode once I get back home. :grimacing:
     
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    Moony

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    I feel like I need to check him out!

    Am I the only one skeptical to aliens though? There most definitely is life in outer space (I think, maybe I'm wrong?) but I don't believe they would be nice and I don't believe they're... green headed and would have two legs and arms like humans.
     
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  10. JennyDaniella

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    It’s plausible that there are no intelligent life persay; but I highly doubt it haha. And you are correct, there could be a possibility that there would be aliens that are hostile and have bad intentions. However, I don’t believe we are the only intelligent beings out there. The universe is incomprehensibly huge.

    Thing we have to consider is that distance is the problem when it comes to interaction with other beings. It’s just way too big and it could be a possibility that no one has figured out a way for interstellar travel. But that’s just a possibility.

    Who knows, aliens might actually know our presence, but are just observing. Also, we human beings aren’t exactly the nicest to interact with. We blow shit up, treat our own kind and other creatures with such malice, greed and corruption runs rampant.

    If I was an alien, I wouldn’t interact with us to be quite frank. We have a lot to advance and catch up intellectually.

    Here is a video that I posted in a thread last night. It’s a bit mindblowing.

     
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  11. Fidicen

    Fidicen Community Member

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    Both of course, or I wouldn't be a paradox, would I? Because I'm skeptical I have to believe. I mean if you go around doubting the foundations of existence and the possibility of knowledge, then in order to function in any capacity, thinking or peeling potatoes, you have to start believing and take the existence of the potato on faith. True, I do see the scabby little thing, but how do I know that @Wyote hasn't cast his famous potato spell on me? So believing and seeing overlap to such an extent that I can't make up my mind. There's no escaping from beliefs even though many people insist that axioms are truths and not beliefs.
     
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  12. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    I wonder if the edge of the universe is as chaotic as our little speck was when the galaxy was formed. How much matter is there? Does it run out? Where is the center of the universe?

    Could we tell then what lies at the edge? If we knew...?
     
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  13. Fidicen

    Fidicen Community Member

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    Didn't Sting admit to being an alien in Englishman in New York? Moreover, Trump has mentioned aliens on several occasions. They're already here! And in Mexico no less! Hmm. So does it mean that "we" have a lot to advance and catch up intellectually compared to Mexicans?
     
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  14. JennyDaniella

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    I have the same questions! It’s really mind-boggling... I hope we get those answers in our lifetime, but something tells me we won’t get all them due to how complex it is all.

    Going down the rabbit hole, we are all made out of energy/matter, and technically energy never dies. What really happens after we die? I myself have never been one to believe in a heaven, but I sometimes do wonder what really happens to an individual and their energy when they pass away.

    Does reincarnation exist? Do we continue off somewhere else? Or is it simply just black and nothingness?

    Idk. Just so many questions and really no answer...

    Edit: I forgot to mention, though a human body are mostly atom/matter and some energy; energy in other aspects can dissipate over time, such as heat. But I suppose I’m referring to a more consciousness/ metaphysic aspect? It’s hard to explain. I suppose the answer is that it is what it is, unfortunately.

    LOLOLOL!

    You sir, made my day hahahaha!

    Also since I’m Mexican, I’m super duper smart, like I’m super cereal rite now. I’m probably Copernicus incarnate.
     
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    #14 JennyDaniella, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  15. Fidicen

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    I believe the consensus at the moment is that there is no centre nor an edge to the universe. It's hard to picture, but even though the universe is expanding, it isn't expanding into anything because there's presumably no space outside; space only comes into existence in our universe. That's why there's also no edge. And when we're looking at galaxies that are far away, we see the past when the universe was smaller and younger, but not a spatial point that would be closer to the edge. In a way every point is the centre, and the only edge we have is the limit of observation due to the speed of light and our instruments.
     
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  16. Asa

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    I'm with @Wyote on this: both.

    Believing is seeing: Intuition could fit here.
    Seeing is Believing: Evidence is more factual, but your preconceptions (beliefs) mold how you see everything.
     
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  17. Asa

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    Pfffftt, everyone knows the universe is flat.
     
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  18. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    Seems somewhat inconceivable to look at it this way, like it just popped into existence.* IMO it defies the logic of cause and effect, including the big bang as an event causing the expansion of the universe.

    There has to be a "point" of origin, even if there is a continuous modulation of matter into galaxies between the already existing ones, doesn't it?


    *Without considering some divine force/intervention.
     
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  19. John K

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    I'm very much on this wavelength - I came across the concept of positive skepticism some years ago that seems to fit me very well. Nothing is really certain, but I go along with things, suspending judgement a lot of the time, using subjective and objective perception and using an inductive kind of attitude to see where it all goes. In all honesty I see science at its best doing this sort of thing, and so do the great religions when you look behind their formalisms and sterotypes.
     
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  20. John K

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    All the evidence is that there was no space or time when the universe came into existence - it started as a very small thing that expanded to the size it is now - so every point in space is the origin in a sense
     
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