(Aubrey de Grey) Indefinite Life Extension | INFJ Forum

(Aubrey de Grey) Indefinite Life Extension

Jack

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Mar 25, 2010
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[video=youtube;qMAwnA5WvLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMAwnA5WvLc[/video]

Sounds like a lot of fun to me, personally, I couldn't do a fraction of the things I would really want to in only 80 years even if I was relatively youthful for all of them.
 
Interesting.

But one of his listed common reactions is: "where would we put everyone?" That's not a question that ought to be casually dismissed. I'm sure than even a modest decrease in mortality rates within a short period of time could potentially cause deep, systemic social problems.
 
Interesting.

But one of his listed common reactions is: "where would we put everyone?" That's not a question that ought to be casually dismissed. I'm sure than even a modest decrease in mortality rates within a short period of time could potentially cause deep, systemic social problems.
We would have to impose an age-based euthanasia program that any number of sci-fi movies (Logan’s Run) have touched on. What’s more though, I feel that it would be a class separator as most-likely the age reversal drugs/treatments would only be affordable to the rich...which would diminish the population issue somewhat but would in turn cause even more social strife. Overall, unless we are out there populating other planets and do not have limited space and resources such as we have on Earth - this guy is excited about it because it’s his field of study and as a scientist his sole desire is to solve the puzzle he is focused on...but in the long run I agree, it’s a very BAD idea.
 
I plan on living forever until otherwise proven wrong.
 
I plan on living forever until otherwise proven wrong.
Nixie in 500 years...
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Brilliant. One could make a very good thread about the pros and cons of immortality...
 
We would have to impose an age-based euthanasia program that any number of sci-fi movies (Logan’s Run) have touched on. What’s more though, I feel that it would be a class separator as most-likely the age reversal drugs/treatments would only be affordable to the rich...which would diminish the population issue somewhat but would in turn cause even more social strife. Overall, unless we are out there populating other planets and do not have limited space and resources such as we have on Earth - this guy is excited about it because it’s his field of study and as a scientist his sole desire is to solve the puzzle he is focused on...but in the long run I agree, it’s a very BAD idea.

I have to admit, the class distinction issue would be my preeminent concern with this as well, still though, I'd imagine it's worth the risk considering the possible benefit anyone could gain from it. Anyway, inevitably, the price would go down as time goes on, as the product would be of such common interest that demand would be 'through the roof', so to speak. So unless some kind of price fixing went on, (which is I'll admit definitely possible) companies that didn't try to produce these products more cheaply, and in greater quantities, would be severely out-competed.

I also understand the objection about overpopulation, and I'll agree that a dramatic increase in life expectancy would cause some pretty interesting changes in our social situation, but as they say, change is inevitable, growth (progress) is optional. I am of the persuasion that curing cancer would also decrease mortality rates, and contribute to overpopulation, but that we should do it anyway. Providing drinkable water and adequate food to individuals in third world countries who need it, might contribute to overpopulation as well, but I think we should do it anyway. It's easy to turn one's back in indifference so to live comfortably in (relative) affluence, but I'd say that's not the way to go. Similarly, aging is one cause of death among many, ending it won't make people immortal, but it eliminates one more killer, and a big one, one that disfigures people's faces, and robs them of their precious memories right before it steals them away from those they love. Though I know overpopulation is a potential bombshell, and I understand the fear there, still I think it's solvable as well, and I think we should try to achieve that and everything else. Currently though, I'd think the actual allocation of resources and living space is more pertinent, and who knows, for indefinite life extension, the solution could be as simple as government regulation requiring a 'no more reproduction until further notice' opt in for access. (Even though I say this as a Libertarian) I'd imagine people would be willing to wait patiently if they knew they would be young and sexy for several hundred years to come.

To delve into overpopulation a little more, my personal favored idea is the Ark. (Somehow reminiscent of Sim City 2000) When we're able to populate oceans, there's a lot more space to go around. I think economic viability is the main thing. As much as capitalism sucks, you've gotta admit that it can come up with some pretty interesting and creative solutions if properly incentivized. You can imagine cruising through the tropics in one of those perfectly eco friendly bubbles.

We'll probably always have something to worry about, but solving the problems currently before us, and getting new ones is how we've always done it, and as many theoretical solutions or problems that we could come up with, I think we should always strive for the greatest possible outcome, but that's just how I see things, and I know this discussion has many sides to it.
 
I don't think many people actually would opt for living forever. Several hundreds, maybe thousands, or tens of thousands years, sure, but forever?

There is a great book by Julian Barnes called A History of the World in 10½ Chapters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_World_in_10½_Chapters). The last chapter is about heaven. The narrator describes it as a place of infinite possibilities, where the "staff" (angels?) works hard to grant the souls whatever the latter are craving for, be it material joys, relationships, scientific pursuit, etc. There is no hell ("it was a necessary propaganda", says one angel), and everyone is free to experience whatever they want to - from great sex and shopping to discoveries and escaping grave dangers. There is yet another possibility: stop existing. To the narrator's question, what is the share of people that choose to "die", the angel replies, "Hundred percent. Some take less time, some take more time, but eventually, everyone chooses this."

And it makes sense to me. Think about it. As huge and diverse the world is, eventually you'll run out of the new things to experience. Sure, you may be able to wipe your memory and do it all over again, but why? Unless you are driven by duty, but if not, this will be like a conversation that comes back to the same points over and over again.

That said, on the practical level, this is still way off.
 
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[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

Or it could be like Gunnm: Last Order where the elite have moved to space and live pretty much forever and don't reproduce to sustain population. Instead they send children and anybody unwanted to battle domes to kill each other off and provide entertainment. The elite are pretty much immune and want to have all the resources and luxuries to themselves, forever.

I guess it's also similar to the new movie Elysium, except in Gunnm they've expanded MUCH further, actually colonizing Mars, terraforming Venus, and having built a Dyson Sphere around Jupiter.
 
@Skarekrow

Or it could be like Gunnm: Last Order where the elite have moved to space and live pretty much forever and don't reproduce to sustain population. Instead they send children and anybody unwanted to battle domes to kill each other off and provide entertainment. The elite are pretty much immune and want to have all the resources and luxuries to themselves, forever.

I guess it's also similar to the new movie Elysium, except in Gunnm they've expanded MUCH further, actually colonizing Mars, terraforming Venus, and having built a Dyson Sphere around Jupiter.
I’m there....let’s do it. lololol
No...I still cannot imagine that indefinite life is a good idea unless you have societal restrictions in place. And I still stand by the idea that only the rich will be able to afford such a thing. Can you imagine them offering these treatments to a homeless man or someone who is considered a drain on the system....no, they would let them die.
 
Think about it. As huge and diverse the world is, eventually you'll run out of the new things to experience.

Really? Think of all the new books published every single year, you'll never catch up if you tried to read even half of them. Think of all the awesome video games they come out with all the time. Could you even come close to mastering them all? Think of all the advances in science, technology, history, psychology, and philosophy, even if you read all the relevant literature in one subfield, of any of those that I mentioned, and that would be a feat, think of how much literature would be published in all the other fields of discovery and human knowledge in the meantime. Or how about new recipes, can you try them all? Could you even come close to seeing all the interesting sites in the universe? Beyond that, have you ever had a connection with someone that you really wouldn't mind if it lasted forever? I believe that in a position where people were free to spend their time doing the things they love, with the people they love, then no one would ever opt to die.

Even if I were wrong though, at least they'd do so satisfied in having their fill of life, rather than having it prematurely stolen from them, and left wishing they had more time.

That said, on the practical level, this is still way off.

Unless anti-aging technology begins to advance faster than people age... you know, kind of like computers.
 
[video=youtube;qMAwnA5WvLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMAwnA5WvLc[/video]

Sounds like a lot of fun to me, personally, I couldn't do a fraction of the things I would really want to in only 80 years even if I was relatively youthful for all of them.

Read a book called Icehendge about 25 years ago. A great deal of it was about how humans had figured out how to live almost indefinitely. One of the interesting lines of thought that pervade through the book was that while people could live that long, their brains couldnt store the information it was subject to over thousands of years. So people simply "Forgot" where they came from and who they were when they were younger. So you might find a person who was a homeless drug addict at one point in their life having become leader of an entire world. Or the leader of a world might find themselves spending time whoring themselves out in a brothel to pass the time to keep from being bored. Money was no longer a form of payment that had value. What had value were items, things ideas where there were only so many of them. Example, a single person had value because they were unique. A plot of land had value because it was the only place where you could get "that view".

Just interesting how things will change. The last I read they had laboratory mice living 4 times as long as normal in the lab. Not too long ago, I read that they were actually able to reverse aging in mice as well. Wow, talk about turning the world upside down when no one dies any more. You thought over population was a problem now...just wait.

Awesome video btw. Thanks for posting it. TedTalks are great!
 
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Unless anti-aging technology begins to advance faster than people age... you know, kind of like computers.

It will initially be the sole domain of the very rich. And...it may stay that way for a very long time.