Atheism & Skepticism

[Hard]

INFJ's are often considered likely to be more religious and or spiritual. In my experience, this seems to be true in the broad sense. However, there are some who don't fall into that category, and that is somewhat of what I want to discuss. Please note, I have not made this to discuss the merits/validity (or there lack of) of religious and spiritual ideas, and this is not a debate thread.

Who here (regardless of type) considers themselves to be an atheist and or skeptic and why? A bit of care should be taken to define exactly what each of those means. That said, everyone seems to have their own personal definition of what it is. For sake of simplicity, I'll say that when I say atheism I am referring to a lack of belief in god/gods/higher-power/etc. This is different from saying "I know there is no god/gods/higher-power/etc." but there is a lack of reason of compulsion to put any faith into that sort of concept. Skepticism is sort of an independent concept from that but is often related in the contexts of these sorts of ideas. There are some who consider themselves atheist, however still believe in energy, karma, tarot, prayer, and topics that in general would be considered "spiritual". Skeptic is the lack of belief in those sorts of concepts.

Additionally, is there anyone here who used to be religious and or spiritual who has since let go of their beliefs. If so, how and why did it happen, and how do you feel as a person after that experience?

Let the discussion begin.

 

[Rift Zone]

I'm atheist and spiritual! -Deeply spiritual. I define spirituality as the endeavor to understand and identify one's self with their origin and relation to the universe. Spirituality is a fundamental human trait. We want to know who we are. We want to know where we came from. We want to know what we're doing here. We even want to know what our destiny holds for us. These types of questions are the essence of spirituality. The answers are our identity.

Atheist spirituality looks to science for direction. After all, our origin and relation to the universe exists solely within the realm of the sciences. The natural world is our origin and relation to the universe. Physics, chemistry and biology do a good job of explaining many of the questions we ask but it's not complete. Spirituality is not an interdisciplinary science, for lack of a better term, it's a feeling. We're not just looking for some answers, were looking for ourselves! We are looking for things deeply related to our being and we often feel it deeply when our spirituality is engaged. Aligning ourselves with, getting in touch with what we make of our spirituality may be one of the deepest, primal and rewarding experiences we could have.

The tragedy of modern atheism is even atheists think you need deity to have spirituality. Granted, the universe is rather indifferent to our existence. Irrelevant, there's no need for a pat on the back from the universe to have spirituality either. In fact, the whole notion is insulting to true spirituality. We have an atmosphere that assumes the deepest and most wondrous part of the universe is disassociated from us. That at best, there's some sort of alliance we can form. That's ridiculous! We are some of the deepest, most amazing and wondrous parts of the universe!

Who are we? We are living beings. Of all the dull and mundane things we could have been, we are alive! We are the chemical equivalent of a chunk of ice and a few rocks. Yet, we are very different. Life is one of the most marvelous forms matter can take. Arranging chemicals in different ways will yield different properties. The properties of life are astounding. We truly are more than the sum of our parts. Matter comes in many different and wonderful forms: galaxies and stellar nurseries, nebula and planets... The list goes on an on. There is beauty, wonder and awe to be found everywhere in the universe. Still, life sets a new standard for intrinsic beauty and value. It is some of the coolest stuff in the universe. You! Yes, you are one of the most awesome and precious forms of matter that exist in the cosmos. The deepest and most wondrous part of the universe is not isolated from us, it is us!

If you guys are familiar with Carl Sagan then you might recognize that he was very much in love with existence and the universe that granted it to us. I feel that is spirituality in its purest form. It is how my spirituality is expressed.

 

[barbad0s]

I think there's always been something inherently fanciful and spiritual about the way I view the world, even though I've never thought of myself as a particularly spiritual person. I've always seen myself as more of a humble skeptic, agnostic and dabbling in spiritual pursuits now and again (I've familiarized myself with the works of Taoism, Alan Watts, Carl Sagan, etc. , aside from other things white people find less exotic)... but when I try to look at my views and real beliefs objectively, I've come to the conclusion that I've always sort of felt like there could very well be something more than meets the eye. Life in itself brings many strong and transcendent feelings to me already, and apparently it does for most all others as well.

I was brought up Christian very loosely when I was very young. It was loose because we hardly went to church, and added to that, the fact that half of my family is Buddhist and I visited the temple far more often. I thought that God would smite me if I didn't behave. It didn't happen, not even when I pointed at the sky saying, "I hate you," in front of my parents in primary school, and the fear wore off rapidly from then on out. It didn't seem like Buddha et al were actively affecting my life either. I continued singing Christmas choir songs, eating Easter eggs, and periodically getting free vegetarian meals prepared by the temple nuns with my family. I decided that I would be okay in life/death since I tended towards being a virtuous enough person anyway, because believing anything otherwise seemed outrageous to me. The people who thought otherwise all came across as hateful and obtuse.

At times, when I was younger, I rather optimistically believed that there would be a heaven but not a hell. Currently I suppose I am okay with anything happening. I went to church for a couple of months last year for the first time since forever out of suggestion by a college classmate, but eventually some of the beliefs that the church pushed had predictably ended up clashing with what I felt was just; plus, I felt like I was just faking my enthusiasm. Maybe some douchebag god will throw me in hell for feeling uncomfortable at a chuch where I listened to a pastor preach about same-sex marriage being evil, or for not repenting for following the Buddhist customs that have been ingrained in the culture I came from after being asked to, and feeling sickened by the notion of it. YOLO. I won't deny that there is a certain appeal in some ways to engaging in spirituality and spiritual thinking, but I try to think and deal in terms of what happens concretely before me and not force any fanciful ideas that don't come naturally to me.

 

[Radiantshadow]

As far as religion, deities, and such are concerned, I fall between agnosticism and theological noncognitivism with a sternly skeptical bent warmed by humanism. The supernatural is unverifiable and unfalsifiable; therefore, no definitive claims or definitions can be made, rendering discussion about deities, spirits, demons, and so on moot. Instead, my religion is mankind, my temple is human potential, my dogma is skeptical inquiry, and my scripture is the endless tracks of personal growth. I am quite content to forge my own path in the universe, answer questions myself, and make decisions independently of any prescribed belief system.

That said, I consider religion psychologically interesting for the comforting structural effect it has on people. It gives many a set of motivations, an ethical code to live by, and a sense of value and purpose that enables them to live happy, productive lives where they might not otherwise. It's not for everyone, but may those who fit it enjoy it.

On the other hand, I believe that spirituality is more subtle. It less a stance and more a motion, a movement to awe and the capture of wonder. It is the transformational rapture that occurs when the Self connects to something fundamental and transcendent - the devotion to liminality, in a few words.

 

[sprinkles]

I am a goldfish what do I know bloop bloop

 

[Skarekrow]

I am a goldfish what do I know bloop bloop

 

[Hard]

I'm atheist and spiritual! -Deeply spiritual.

I think we just have different definitions on what spiritual means. By what you described I'd say just atheist. But let's avoid the semantics . You seem to take a very poetic take on the universe and such- it's quite pretty the way you put it. I'm more of a literal "it is what it is" sort of guy (product of a few too many knocks). Although, when I am in one of my more "wonderous" moods I like to think about this sort of stuff. It just feels amazing to think about the absurdity and unlikeliness of our own existence. Because, it really is absurd beyond what words could convey. As well as what lies beyond what we can see and observe. I would very much like to know how common complex life systems are; it would say a lot about the nature of chemistry and biology.

 

[Skarekrow]

I think we just have different definitions on what spiritual means. By what you described I'd say just atheist. But let's avoid the semantics . You seem to take a very poetic take on the universe and such- it's quite pretty the way you put it. I'm more of a literal "it is what it is" sort of guy (product of a few too many knocks). Although, when I am in one of my more "wonderous" moods I like to think about this sort of stuff. It just feels amazing to think about the absurdity and unlikeliness of our own existence. Because, it really is absurd beyond what words could convey. As well as what lies beyond what we can see and observe. I would very much like to know how common complex life systems are; it would say a lot about the nature of chemistry and biology.

I would be an atheist if it weren’t for some very odd occurrences (with a witness on one occasion) that I cannot explain other than something supernatural.
It IS absurd and unlikely that we even exist, which makes you question, is it all just random or something else?

 

[Hard]

I would be an atheist if it weren’t for some very odd occurrences (with a witness on one occasion) that I cannot explain other than something supernatural.
It IS absurd and unlikely that we even exist, which makes you question, is it all just random or something else?

I used to be very spiritual a few years ago, and have had some pretty bizzare experiences as well. However, I have taken the mindset that I am not going to put stock into something unless I am given a reason to believe it. I am very hesitant to come up with explanations for something on my own without something to back it up and support it. It feels like you'd be leaving a void to not try and reason and explain everything we encounter. However, I've learned there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". Bizzare occurances I label as an interesting anomoly in my mind, and leave it as such until new evidence shows up.

 

[Skarekrow]

I used to be very spiritual a few years ago, and have had some pretty bizzare experiences as well. However, I have taken the mindset that I am not going to put stock into something unless I am given a reason to believe it. I am very hesitant to come up with explanations for something on my own without something to back it up and support it. It feels like you'd be leaving a void to not try and reason and explain everything we encounter. However, I've learned there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". Bizzare occurances I label as an interesting anomoly in my mind, and leave it as such until new evidence shows up.

Well, I would call them anomalies in my mind too, if not for witnesses (who were consequently scared shitless), and physical evidence, i.e. - things that were broken.
Perhaps they weren’t ghosts at all...perhaps it was some psychokinetic stuff going on...that is still in the supernatural realm....it is still beyond what I can logically find a reason for...and I looked.
I know you clearly stated that this was not a debate thread...I’m not trying to do that...just letting you know that I was right where you are, and still am in many respects. But for those occurrences I would still be...but having those personal experiences changed my mind...and of course they shouldn’t change yours, they were my experiences. But there are things out there that science has not found out about yet...and I believe there are things that are not compatible with the logic of science....and for me that is the hardest part to accept...I work in the medical field...always loved science, even as a child...my brain tries desperately to find the logic, the math, the science behind certain things...the closest science gets is quantum physics...and there are certainly “spooky” things in the quantum realm...but I had to finally say to myself that there are things beyond science.
And then I found the correlations from science and things like sacred geometry.....our ancestors knew those shapes and proportions were important...they just didn’t understand the “why” of it.
I can give you some great links if you are interested.

 

[Rift Zone]

Hard, ya, having a different take on spirituality wouldn't surprise me too much. I think of life as more of a novelty, not absurdity. Then again, the odds of life arising are certainly absurd. As far as being spiritual goes, I'd say anyone who is passionate about learning and involving/aligning themselves with what they make of their origin and relation to the universe is spiritual. Under that definition, I qualify. I think existence is a beautiful thing; it is pretty to me.

There are things beyond science! There always will be. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in anything supernatural. The concept "supernatural" is nonsensical to me -you're either a fundamental and legitimate function/property/expression of the universe or you're not. There's no middle ground there. The thing is, the laws of the universe only dictate what cannot be, they can only set parameters. They will never be in a position to describe or dictate the essence of the universe, only the range it can have. In relation to us, laws of the universe say it's okay to have life but that doesn't mean we were ever meant to be... That's a big part of the novelty for me, laws of the universe say sentient creatures are possible but nothing ever made our existence mandatory so sitting around here pondering all of this is where I get a fair amount of my wonder, awe, and mystery. Besides, this universe is far more interesting and dynamic than many realize: our star isn't just hanging out with a bunch of other stars to form the Milky Way, our star is helping to power our galaxy! What we're a part of is truly profound.