Aspergers is it the new ADD? | INFJ Forum

Aspergers is it the new ADD?

Blind Bandit

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So As many of you probably have I've heard this diagnoses thrown around a good deal. But I'm wondering when dose normal social difference stop and Asperge's start.

I've been thinking and I've wondered if this is simply a new trend to try and put people that aren't normal quote un-quote. Into a category so that mainstream society can feel better about their quirks.

I do think that there are ligament causes of this. But I wouldn't be surprised if NF or NT persons, specially IN varieties get diagnosed with this syndrome. I've heard the term High functioning AS before. And I don't know how much I believe that to be true.

What dose everyone think?

Do you have experience with AS people?
 
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So As many of you probably have I've heard this diagnoses thrown around a good deal. But I'm wondering when dose normal social difference stop and Asperge's start.

I've been thinking and I've wondered if this is simply a new trend to try and put people that aren't normal quote un-quote. Into a category so that mainstream society can feel better about their quirks.

I do think that there are ligament causes of this. But I wouldn't be surprised if NF or NT persons Especially I varieties get diagnosed with this syndrome. I've heard the term High functioning AS before. And I don't know how much I believe that to be true.

What dose everyone think?

Do you have experience with AS people?


O my gosh dear Earthbender.....

While reading this my face was completely:m075:the whole time....


What does....NF or Nt mean?

and what does AS mean?

im pretty sure this is all MBTI talk but i dont think im deep enough into yet to understand your complex language. please....explain.:m107:


P.s. will you teach me earthbending? hahah jk. ill stick to tha topic :thumb:
 
I'm afraid Aspergers might be the new ADD. Remember, psychiatry is a business.
 
O my gosh dear Earthbender.....

While reading this my face was completely:m075:the whole time....


What does....NF or Nt mean?

and what does AS mean?

im pretty sure this is all MBTI talk but i dont think im deep enough into yet to understand your complex language. please....explain.:m107:


P.s. will you teach me earthbending? hahah jk. ill stick to tha topic :thumb:

AS= [SIZE=Default]Asperge[/SIZE]

The four temperaments.

http://www.keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=3&c=overview

So certain types share certain behaviors.

NT and NF are the following personality types.

INTP
INTJ
ENTP
ENTJ

INFP
INFJ
ENFP
ENFJ

And of course I will but its 100 dollars an hour.lol

I'm afraid Aspergers might be the new ADD. Remember, psychiatry is a business.

I'm starting to think so as well.
 
I've noticed this cropping up a lot more ever since 'The curious incident of the dog in the night time'. I think emotionally needy people mimic symptoms to gain attention for themselves. Whenever a spotlight is shined on a certain disorder, many people seem to suddenly develop it. especially when it is seen to have certain advantages. The same way far more people claimed dyslexia or ADD than actually had it. It's a shame that people have to resort to labelling themselves as abnormal in order to receive the 'special treatment', or 'love' that has been missing from their lives.
 
So what level of social impairment qualifies as aspergers?

Isn't it specific habit that people with Aspergers have that qualify them? Not the level of your social intelligence?

Like obsessing over certain subjects.

I know a few people with aspergers it is rather noticeable.
 
I've noticed this cropping up a lot more ever since 'The curious incident of the dog in the night time'. I think emotionally needy people mimic symptoms to gain attention for themselves. Whenever a spotlight is shined on a certain disorder, many people seem to suddenly develop it. especially when it is seen to have certain advantages. The same way far more people claimed dyslexia or ADD than actually had it. It's a shame that people have to resort to labelling themselves as abnormal in order to receive the 'special treatment', or 'love' that has been missing from their lives.

I find this post less than helpful and quite uncharacteristic of your usual posts. Discussions of disabilities, especially psychiatric ones, seem to bring this out in people.

First of all, a psychiatric label doesn't afford one "love" or positive "special treatment; far from it. Instead, one's opinions and thought processes are discounted to a frustrating degree. Feelings and thoughts are dismissed as symptoms and given no credence, no matter your degree of intelligence or level of education. A psychiatric label makes employment more difficult, even if the disorder is controlled by medication and Social Security disability benefits are rarely available unless the disorder is accompanied by mental retardation. Had I been completely honest on my bar exam application, I wouldn't have been allowed to take the bar exam, despite having graduated in the top ten of my law school class of 300. Knowing that, I answered "no" to the question "Has anyone ever told you you have a mental illness?" For crying out loud, the question wasn't even "Have you ever been diagnosed and treated for a mental illness"!

There is such a stigma to a psychiatric label, I really cannot imagine anyone voluntarily putting themselves in a position to have to live with that. Even family and friends often draw back and make the same assumptions the medical community does; i.e., that any thoughts or actions are symptoms rather than anything "real." Now, where's the "love" in that?

While I agree that certain disorders are over-diagnosed,the cause doesn't stem from people "mimicking" symptoms, but from doctors who don''t listen carefully enough. On the other hand, there are people who, after reading or seeing something like the book you mention, suddenly realize there is a name for what they've experienced most if not all of their lives. They don't have to mimc symptoms; rather it's a recognition of their experience, maybe of something that's baffled them. Whether or not they seek treatment is another matter entirely.

One last point: Aspergers is more frequently diagnosed in children than adults and children are much less likely to know how---or be motivated to--create symptoms out of whole cloth. Sadly, there are parents who may who seek attention by dramatizing symptoms they think they see in their kids, but in my experience at least, this is rare. As a personal example, I tried diet, environmental change, allergy treatment and behavior modification for eight years before getting a psychiatric evaluation for my younger son. Most docs, if they are any good, will recommend trying these kinds of strategies before resorting to medication.

End of rant and it may be the end of my tenure on this forum, not out of anger so much as disappointment; but maybe I expected too much. I think a much more useful discussion would be: Should we medicate so-called mental illnesses or accept that there are people among us who are different and learn to value those differences as a society. One question might be, how much distress do a person's symptoms cause the individual and to what extent do we medicate and when? Or what is the trade-off between the risks of psych meds, known to be quite toxic to the human body and the effects of the disorder? And who should decide? Then there's the issue of being willing to pay for medication but not the effects (e.g., psych meds cause terrible dental problems but Medicaid doesn't pay for dental care; and while most psych drugs have significant weight gain as a side effect, putting the individual at risk for heart disease and diabetes, for the most part we merely punish the person by calling them fat).
 
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I susprct the above post will be a thread-ender, which is too bad because I'd love to hear some response to the points I tried to make in a reasoned and logical way. I don't know if I succeeded, but I gave it my best. Though I referred to it as a "rant," it wasn't meant to be perceived as one.
 
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I find this post less than helpful and quite uncharacteristic of your usual posts. Discussions of disabilities, especially psychiatric ones, seem to bring this out in people.

Isn't this ad hom territory?

First of all, a psychiatric label doesn't afford one "love" or positive "special treatment; far from it. Instead, one's opinions and thought processes are discounted to a frustrating degree. Feelings and thoughts are dismissed as symptoms and given no credence, no matter your degree of intelligence or level of education. A psychiatric label makes employment more difficult, even if the disorder is controlled by medication and Social Security disability benefits are rarely available unless the disorder is accompanied by mental retardation. Had I been completely honest on my bar exam application, I wouldn't have been allowed to take the bar exam, despite having graduated in the top ten of my law school class of 300. Knowing that, I answered "no" to the question "Has anyone ever told you you have a mental illness?" For crying out loud, the question wasn't even "Have you ever been diagnosed and treated for a mental illness"!
People unjustly apply psychiatric labels to themselves in order to receive attention or explain why they are the way they are. Honestly, you haven't heard one person say 'I'm depressed' when, at worst, they were just feeling a bit down/under the weather. If your thought processes were affected by aan illness, then they shouldn't be included in your 'diagnoses'. The rest is your experiences.
There is such a stigma to a psychiatric label, I really cannot imagine anyone voluntarily putting themselves in a position to have to live with that. Even family and friends often draw back and make the same assumptions the medical community does; i.e., that any thoughts or actions are symptoms rather than anything "real." Now, where's the "love" in that?
I doubt people who are applying these labels to themselves are going into interviews stating that 'They have aspergers'

While I agree that certain disorders are over-diagnosed,the cause doesn't stem from people "mimicking" symptoms, but from doctors who don''t listen carefully enough. On the other hand, there are people who, after reading or seeing something like the book you mention, suddenly realize there is a name for what they've experienced most if not all of their lives. They don't have to mimc symptoms; rather it's a recognition of their experience, maybe of something that's baffled them. Whether or not they seek treatment is another matter entirely.
The problem with most of these people is that they self diagnose themselves, or read about it and start, maybe unconsciously, mirroring the symptoms and thus, with that, they get validation.

One last point: Aspergers is more frequently diagnosed in children than adults and children are much less likely to know how---or be motivated to--create symptoms out of whole cloth. Sadly, there are parents who may who seek attention by dramatizing symptoms they think they see in their kids, but in my experience at least, this is rare. As a personal example, I tried diet, environmental change, allergy treatment and behavior modification for eight years before getting a psychiatric evaluation for my younger son. Most docs, if they are any good, will recommend trying these kinds of strategies before resorting to medication.

End of rant and it may be the end of my tenure on this forum, not out of anger so much as disappointment; but maybe I expected too much. I think a much more useful discussion would be: Should we medicate so-called mental illnesses or accept that there are people among us who are different and learn to value those differences as a society. One question might be, how much distress do a person's symptoms cause the individual and to what extent do we medicate and when? Or what is the trade-off between the risks of psych meds, known to be quite toxic to the human body and the effects of the disorder? And who should decide? Then there's the issue of being willing to pay for medication but not the effects (e.g., psych meds cause terrible dental problems but Medicaid doesn't pay for dental care; and while most psych drugs have significant weight gain as a side effect, putting the individual at risk for heart disease and diabetes, for the most part we merely punish the person by calling them fat).

It's about 8 o clock in the morning, and I haven't sleep yet, I think this post is comprehensible but if it's not, i'll fix it.
 
I find this post less than helpful and quite uncharacteristic of your usual posts. Discussions of disabilities, especially psychiatric ones, seem to bring this out in people.

You're right to call me on that. I shouldn't generalise. Whilst my comments refer to my real life perceptions of people, they're only my perceptions, and can in no way be relied upon, nor should they be used as the basis for any logical argument. On reflection I'd have to agree with you that they weren't helpful at all. I apologise.
 
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To clarify I wasn't referring to self diagnoses but others labeling their peers because of quirks they may have.

So lets get back on the topic at hand.

I don't want to get into attention getting and so on in this thread.
 
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I think emotionally needy people mimic symptoms to gain attention for themselves. Whenever a spotlight is shined on a certain disorder, many people seem to suddenly develop it. especially when it is seen to have certain advantages. It's a shame that people have to resort to labelling themselves as abnormal in order to receive the 'special treatment', or 'love' that has been missing from their lives.

I feel that this is true in many cases.

Whatever was said in Anicas rant...I dont know. I dont have the energy to read it all right now.

It's true that people do sometimes handicap themselves.
 
Isn't this ad hom territory?

Of course it is ad hominen territory, which means Helpful Elf is as entitled to his opinion as I am to disagree with him. I used the term "unhelpful" as a play on his screen name, nothing more.


People unjustly apply psychiatric labels to themselves in order to receive attention or explain why they are the way they are. Honestly, you haven't heard one person say 'I'm depressed' when, at worst, they were just feeling a bit down/under the weather. If your thought processes were affected by aan illness, then they shouldn't be included in your 'diagnoses'. The rest is your experiences.

I would say people sometimes use psychiatric terns like "depressed" loosely rather than unjustly in order to get attention. Then, too, there is such a thing as a situational depression, the source of which stems from events in one's life, rather than an actual mental illness. The depression is just as real, but the source is not neurobiological as in a disorder such as unipolar depression.

I'm not clear about the meaning of the last two sentences in your paragraph. If what you meant was: "If your thought processes *weren't* affected by an illness, they shouldn't be included in your ' diagnoses,' then I would answer that people with psychiatric disorders are capable of clear reasoning unless they're ill at the time. For example, my son, who has schizoaffective disorder, has quite normal thought processes unless he is in the grip of delusions and it's quite apparent when this happens. To attribute everything he says or does to the symptoms of his disorder would be quite unfair most of the time. I am most baffled by the sentence "The rest is your experiences." Could you elucidate?


I doubt people who are applying these labels to themselves are going into interviews stating that 'They have aspergers'

Of course not. But if they want accommodations--and what better way to receive special attention--they must disclose their disability to their employer if it isn't evident. And I'll reiterate the example of the bar exam application. Had I been honest about my history, I would never have had the chance to take the bar exam, much less practice law; so it doesn't have to be something as direct as sitting down and announcong you have a disability you don't in fact have.

The problem with most of these people is that they self diagnose themselves, or read about it and start, maybe unconsciously, mirroring the symptoms and thus, with that, they get validation.

Most diagnoses of psychiatric disorders are based on self-reporting, so it seems it would be easy to convince a doctor that a disorder exists by presenting with the right symptoms, but in my experience--admittedly personal and not universal--this isn't the case. Precisely because diagnoses are based on self-reporting, most psychiatrists are reluctant to label a person with a disorder without some observation. My son was hospitalized several times and followed closely by his psychiatrist for two years before a diagnosis of schizophrenia was made. My own diagnosis of bipolar--the second one--was made based on a two-hour interview with me, but I was severely, classically manic at the time and the psychiatrist also consulted my therapist of six years, who was quite embarrassed that he hadn't reached this conclusion himself after so many years of treatment. My point is, psychiatric disorders are hard to diagnose and I have difficulty believing anyone could--or would want to--keep up a facade for the amount of time it takes to get a diagnosis. My first diagnosis of bipolar disorder came after examination by two therapists over a six-year period, several hospitalizations and two suicide attempts, and, finally, a psychiatric examination If you are talking about someone who self-diagnoses but merely shares his/her diagnosis with friends and family to explain behaviors, that's one thng. To get the validation you seem to be talking about-- diagnosis by a psychiatrist and treatment--that's something else again.


It's about 8 o clock in the morning, and I haven't sleep yet, I think this post is comprehensible but if it's not, i'll fix it.

For someone who han't slept, I thought you made a very reasoned argument. I might not agree with every point, but I think we might have been talking apples and oranges. Still, I thought your post was thoughtful and I very much like your writing style.
 
You're right to call me on that. I shouldn't generalise. Whilst my comments refer to my real life perceptions of people, they're only my perceptions, and can in no way be relied upon, nor should they be used as the basis for any logical argument. On reflection I'd have to agree with you that they weren't helpful at all. I apologise.

Apology accepted. I probably overreacted, dealing as I do with psychiatric disorders in my family on a daily basis. It struck a nerve and it showed I'm sure, though I tried to keep my post as dispassionate as possible.
 
To clarify I wasn't referring to self diagnoses but others labeling their piers because of quirks they may have.

So lets get back on the topic at hand.

I don't want to get into attention getting and so on in this thread.

Sorry, BB; I misunderstood your original post. I also let myself get distracted by other posts on the thread. Will give this some thought and get back on target. Thanks for reining us in.
 
Blame Dr. House for this. They started accusing him of having it and suddenly it was cool. Anyone who actually knows anything about aspergers knows it's fairly easy to identify when somebody actually has it. Being an ass or social reject doesn't qualify you.
 
Blame Dr. House for this. They started accusing him of having it and suddenly it was cool. Anyone who actually knows anything about aspergers knows it's fairly easy to identify when somebody actually has it. Being an ass or social reject doesn't qualify you.

I didn't know this about House, probably because I don't like the character and don't watch the show. The one guy I know who has Aspergers I know from a list serv on service dogs. He seems quite nice, though extremely impersonal. He was originally diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder and apparently Aspergers and the schizoid disorders are not uncommon differential diagnoses.
 
Sorry, BB; I misunderstood your original post. I also let myself get distracted by other posts on the thread. Will give this some thought and get back on target. Thanks for reining us in.

No problem It happens a lot.lol :m032:


Blame Dr. House for this. They started accusing him of having it and suddenly it was cool. Anyone who actually knows anything about aspergers knows it's fairly easy to identify when somebody actually has it. Being an ass or social reject doesn't qualify you.

Thanks Wyote this is actually what I was refering too.

I think some may see a person who dosen't care about social norms as AS.

Such as an NT or NF.
 
I have Asperger's (diagnosed when I was 15) and I think it is under-diagnosed, especially in women and Feeling personality types. I think a lot of popular theories about dichotomies between "empathizing vs. systematizing thinking" and us Aspies having "empathy deficits" are mostly nonsense, mistaking a perceptual issue (trouble understanding subtle non-verbal communication cues and thus having a shortage of data of other people's mental states) for a cognitive one (understanding people's mental states and the emotional response to that understanding, AKA, Empathy). I was lucky in that the doctor who was my pediatrician and diagnosed me is one of the most well respected specialists in kids and teens with developmental disorders in my area. He told me that most psychiatrists would have completely missed my AS because my (as he put it) "caring, sensitive guy" personality didn't fit the narrow "Mr. Spock" stereotype even though I fit all the diagnostic criteria and clearly had the sensory and perceptual issues typical of people on the Autism Spectrum.

ADD, though, IS over-diagnosed, mostly because of crappy teachers reporting the behavior of bored, under-stimulated students as "hyperactivity" and "inability to pay attention", and then school psychologists and doctors blindly except the BS exaggerations of those teachers leading to a misdiagnosis. Actual ADD and what schools call "ADD" is two different things.