Are you neat and tidy, or just wish to be? | INFJ Forum

Are you neat and tidy, or just wish to be?

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by April, Oct 10, 2017.

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  1. April

    April Community Member

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    So, I have a question that is a bit confusing. As all my questions are, because they are a direct consequence of me being way too analytical.

    If I thrive in neat and orderly circumstances, and feel like everything is wrong and I am stressed when messy, dirty and cluttered... But I don't constantly clean and organize because kids and bf constantly come behind me and mess it up (like literally 30 mins later)...

    Am I neat because of my desire for order and neatness, or am I messy because I don't do what it takes to keep it orderly no matter how big the job...

    I desperately long for simple yet beautiful and neat and free of clutter, but it's so hard in the house I live in.

    Another example is my car. I need to vacuum it really bad. Theres my kid's toys and shoes in the backseat. I keep my childs shoes in the car because they get lost in the house if I don't...


    My bf is one of the messiest people I know. Downright disgusting. (I cannot bring myself to leave in spite all the problems we have.) He actually spits on things like floors and walls and he says he doesnt realize, yeah right. He leaves candy wrappers, candy, dirty dishes, food, dirty diapers, etc in the floor and will leave them there for a week or more until he feels like cleaning which is hardly ever. So I do have to do some cleaning so we dont have food and stuff everywhere, and his mom does a lot of cleaning too but hes just so much work. We constanly fight and tell him but he just doesn't mind the grungy surroundings. So he does nothing until we ride him about it. Which happens a lot.

    So back to the original question now that you know my situation, I have indeed always had a lazy streak, due to obesity I guess, which stems from being an unhealthy infj and over indulging in food and not making myself do things I should. But after my weight loss surgery, I am different. My lazy streak is only barely there. I come home after a long day of work to an awful messy room and it stresses me but its such a job to do I'd rather just remain stressed and try to ignore it. But when I do spend my energy it takes hours and sometimes even more than one day to get things to where I like it (bc I'm a serious perfectionist so when I do it, it must be done right), only to be destroyed the next day.

    What am I? I mean in a normal situation, now that I'm not as lazy, I clean and organize. Like at work. And I forgot to add, I ALWAYS clean up after my own self. If I cook and eat, you cant even tell...

    Sigh. More threads to come as I have more to talk about!!!
     
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  2. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    It sounds like you have a lot going on other than neatness and organization, but you're addressing it, which is great!

    Your boyfriend is behaving like a child. Yes, some adults are messy, and we all have our quirks, but spitting on the floor and walls, leaving food out, leaving dirty diapers on the floor, and making two other adults clean up after him is not mature or responsible. In balanced relationships one partner usually does more of the cleaning and housework (often the woman, but not always) but this is out of control. You will never be able to keep an organized and clean home with another adult who lives like a zoo animal living with you. It sounds like he is taking advantage of you and refusing to face responsibility and maturity, plus he sounds stubborn. Is he suffering from depression, an illness, or any kind of substance abuse (even drinking heavily)?

    It sounds like you are proactive about making yourself and your life better, but I don't think it is possible to have the environment you desire without your partner making an effort to do an average amount of taking care of himself and his surroundings. It sounds like the issue here is not really organization and cleaning.

    You are not lazy! Please don't call yourself that! You are a mom, it sounds like you work, come home, and have to clean a giant mess every day. There is a limit to human energy. We do need rest. <3

    Good luck. I feel for you.
     
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  3. xsdrtu6

    xsdrtu6 Permanent Fixture

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    People spitting in their own homes is surprisingly common, for me, however, it comes with the death penalty. I'd hang the person who spat in my house.

    Anyways,

    Personally, I believe a person home, or to be more accurate, how a person treats their home is a big indicator of how they treat themselves/life. When I get to know someone, I am never surprised by their homes.

    That's not to say I judge, I don't it's their nest they can do what they want with it.

    But if there is one lesson I am glad to have learned even though it never feels right, is that keeping a tidy home saves you so much time. It just never feels like it because you have to spend the time to make time.

    Looking forward to more of your posts.
     
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  4. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    Yikes! I didn't realize it was common. I would literally show someone the door if they spit in my home.
     
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  5. xsdrtu6

    xsdrtu6 Permanent Fixture

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    There's a saying in Scotland Asa, '' Makes ye wonder how they treat their ain hoose ''

    Basically, if they spit in public then what do they do in private?

    But I agree with your reply to April, she's not lazy, she's just got all the symptoms of someone who has a lot on her mind and it's starting to leak into her physical life.
     
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  6. Littlelissa

    Littlelissa Well-known member

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    I am tidy and I find it easiest to live that way. I can't operate with things left around and a lot of mess every where. I know where things are and don't have to fall over to find anything (that is apart from when I open any storage cupboards, which need more organising). It's also really important to me that there is an aesthetic feel to the space that I inhabit, it affects how I feel. I can't understand how people can live with a lot of clutter and junk it would just be too chaotic for me. @April I feel for you having similar preferences and having to deal with other people's mess...Obviously it's a whole different ball game when you have kids, but I wouldn't tolerate a slovenly partner, at all. That isn't meant anyway, I'm just personally a bit intolerant towards that sort of thing! That's not to say I have not dealt with in in the past, I did, but it seriously did my head in.
     
    #6 Littlelissa, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  7. OP
    April

    April Community Member

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    @Asa Thank you for such a pleasant reply! You are right, he does behave like a child. He is ISTP, also unhealthy, does suffer from addiction but is managing it with a prescription. He is narcissistic, very depressed, and is typical of the ISTP type in that he feels pinned down by the demands of life and relationships but he couldn't stand the thought of me leaving because I am the "only one who has stayed and still loves him" after how he is. So bc of how he feels about demands of life and society being shoved at him, he acts out in these ways because he believes w should all just do what we want.

    It. Is. Exhausting.
     
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    April

    April Community Member

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    @Wonky Oracle You're right! He treats himself just as bad, with loads of harm to his body and mind, and he's so depressed he doesn't care. I'm working out hjow to help him, but he has to want to help himself enough to try! I literally fantasize about leaving, but I couldn't bear to leave him and his mom. I know, my unhealthy self sacrificial thing. But, I just can't let go of that what if.. He's the father of one of my children, and when I left the other father of my child, it did not end well for that child psychologically... I seriously don't know what to do. I know what I should do. It's better to leave. But I just can't. Plus I have nowhere else to go. It's so complicated... Blahhhh
     
  9. OP
    April

    April Community Member

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    I wish I was more intolerant of many things, lol. Like his messiness for one. I understand people can be messy but he is just awful. His mom or someone else always does for him. I most of the time refuse, except for the food and stuff, don't wanna get mold or bugs or anything. I mean I have left a plate overnight before don't get me wrong. But wow, he's just like a child! He needs some serious therapy.

    I wonder if I'm so tolerant because I am unhealthy and unbalanced? Or just that I'm so turbulent? A confidence thing? An "I'm miserable but I don't want to start all over thing"? So many questions, and the only one that can answer is me, but I have no clue!!!
     
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  10. xsdrtu6

    xsdrtu6 Permanent Fixture

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    I hear you, I'm always hesitant to interfere in another's life/relationship, however, you do what is best for yourself and your kids. Let the others figure out what it is to be an adult.
     
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  11. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    @April - I feel your pain. I wish I could offer you a hug, or chocolate, or a glass of wine, or whatever you enjoy that would make you feel better. (Sometimes these simple acts with a friend can make one's day!)

    So, to fix the home, you (collectively) must fix him. Can he go to counseling? Or join an activity that would lift his spirits and have a positive impact, based on his interests? (a sport, a band, art, cycling, an organization, etc....) Is it possible for him to have his own area he can keep as a sty, and make it understood that the rest of the home is to be kept tidy? Glad to hear he is addressing his addiction.

    Even if he doesn't want the domestic life, to be part of a family, he must learn to pick up after himself, and be more constructive and respectful of those he cares about. (You can take care of the heavy cleaning and organizing.) If he has the independence he needs to feel like he is living life on his terms in other areas, this may not be as big a problem. Part of living an independent lifestyle is not being a burden to others. Burdening you with chores he won't do for himself is taking away your independence. In a way, you're his servant.
     
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  12. Littlelissa

    Littlelissa Well-known member

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    @April I'm sorry I didn't mean to be insensitive, I was writing from my POV, and read your post afterwards- and then edited my post.

    It's a difficult one, I think you've got a right to be annoyed but how you deal with it is another thing. It seems the messiness is only one of the surface aspects of a whole scenario. I have experienced similar things and I also found it hard to get out of.. these situations can be messy. Surface mess is almost a metaphor for all the deeper 'mess' in my mind, and also from what you've said. Anyway I hope you work things out somehow, in your own time. Sometimes there is a timeline to these things. Try and go easy on yourself, and a bit harder on others (maybe). Actually it's pretty impossible to change people like this, as I'm sure you know...
    No one can say what the right thing is..( although I'm afraid I've done that again unwittingly) mainly because I think it's a thankless task trying to get others to change because it usually doesn't work.
    Definitely, definitely don't blame yourself though.
     
    #12 Littlelissa, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  13. OP
    April

    April Community Member

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    @Asa I think I am going to try and encourage him more to get therapy, which he is extremely uncomfortable with because he doesn't know how to communicate with people. He gets depressed just thinking about having to talk to a therapist, but I think it could help. But to him, I'm just trying to shove more stuff on him that he doesn't want. He once told me the only time he's felt truly happy is when on drugs. Then things are interesting and he doesn't feel so bored and miserable. I hope he's not too far gone. :/

    Thanks for your kindness, it means so much. I feel the warmth through the screen, lol
     
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  14. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    @April - <3 Good luck. I hope everything smooths out soon and you catch a break... and come home to a tidy home - exactly as you left it - one night soon!

    It sounds like he lacks goals and interests. He needs something he enjoys more than drugs. :(
     
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  15. xsdrtu6

    xsdrtu6 Permanent Fixture

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    @April Listen to @Asa

    She's like,

    The Galadriel of INFJ.com
     
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    April

    April Community Member

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    @Roobarb&Custard dont sweat it hun, I took no offense, after all Im asking for people's input! There will be a separate post later on about him, but since most of the mess does come from him and him not being responsible enough to clean up after himself or our child when I am at work... It kinda is about him too. But mostly its about the fact that I desperately want to be neat and tidy, but find it very hard here. Or is it here? It could be I am just not neat like I want to be. :(
     
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    April

    April Community Member

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    I know right! Sometimes I get offended that it's not me. But I cant take that personal. I shouldnt need to be a savior. I shouldnt need to be worshipped and put above everything else except our child. Bc I get what it's like to need to be your own person. I understand him, but I hate it.
     
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  18. Littlelissa

    Littlelissa Well-known member

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    @April, what I was saying was that the 'mess' seems to be a small part of the problem and I'm sorry I couldn't be more optimistic that's all. It's good your wanting different input as my view is perhaps the less optimistic.... this is still well intended though. People rarely change unless of their own accord, especially those who are already digging their heels in, it's very hard to 'fix' others.
     
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  19. Asa

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    If he doesn't love himself, and love his life, he won't be able to give you the love you deserve, even if he deeply loves you.
     
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  20. Littlelissa

    Littlelissa Well-known member

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    Exactly, just the kind of thing I was trying to get at ...in these circumstances a clean home is almost incidental.
     
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