All the jobs I have gotten were through men!

[Artemisia]

I am a professional female in my mid-30s. I have noticed that all the jobs I have gotten have been through men, whether directly or indirectly. I have been recommended for jobs by my (male) network of peers, have actually been hired by committees composed of men, and have had bosses who were men. Never once has a female actually helped me land a job, and I have several women in my network and friendship circles. Am I biased in my vies? Perhaps....I don´t know.

I do wonder though if this is an INFJ thing. Even thought I am introverted, I come across as a dynamic leader, and no, this does not scare men away. The J in my INFJ is very strong. So I am wondering if other INFJs women who are strong Js have had similar experiences in the workplace.

 

[Reason]

Queen Bee Syndrome

Queen bee syndrome was first defined by G.L. Staines, T.E. Jayaratne, and C. Tavris in 1973.[1] It describes a woman in a position of authority who views or treats subordinates more critically if they are female. This phenomenon has been documented by several studies.[2][3] In another study, scientists from the University of Toronto speculated that the queen bee syndrome may be the reason that women find it more stressful to work for women managers; no difference was found in stress levels for male workers.[4] An alternate, though closely related, definition describes a queen bee as one who has succeeded in her career, but refuses to help other women do the same.[5]

 

[infinite dreams]

I think it speaks more to the unfortunate lack of women in professional management positions more than anything else. I ran a quick google search and this link says only about 15% of executives in the US are women.

Anecdotally - my boss is a woman (ENTJ, I'm fairly sure) and she kicks ass. One of my favorite bosses ever.

 

[Reason]

From The Times

The study found that when presented with applications for promotion, women were more likely than men to assess the female candidate as less qualified than the male one.

They were also prone to mark down women’s prospects for promotion and to assess them as more controlling than men in their management style.

The findings, based on experiments carried out among more than 700 people, suggest that the “queen bee syndrome” of female rivalry in the workplace may sometimes be as important as sexism in holding back women’s careers.

 

[Stu]

If you were 5' and weighed 150 lbs I wonder how many of those positions those guys would have wanted you for.

 

[Artemisia]

I know, but the thing is that in my field there are a lot of women in high positions. It is not like only 15% have tenure, it is closer to 50%. What I meant was that even indirectly, I have had men support me in getting positions, even if temporary. It could be coincidence but my mom, who was an interior designer and an INTJ, also noticed the same thing. She said that every time she landed a job, it was because the boss was male (interior design firms have a lot of female bosses). Her advice to me was to work for male bosses and I remember telling her that it was sexist but she may have been on to something.

 

[hush]

I've had plenty of female bosses/managers, and predominantly females have helped me "land" jobs, so IDK. Some of those female bosses were even considered intimidating by my peers for some silly reason, but I never experienced the same, and have gained indispensable skills and and knowledge via those ladies. They pretty much consistently supported me in doing whatever necessary to further my career.

I don't know if I have a strong J though... ? Maybe my J is a j. That could totally explain everything.

 

[Artemisia]

I am attractive, dress professionally, and am well-mannered. But I have also published a lot and have the right credentials. There are other attractive women in academia so it is not like I am not the only one. Society keeps saying that go-getter type females are looked down upon by men. My experience has been different: men respect the go-getter type if she is also well-mannered and not overly competitive. I have found this to be true in a relationship also.

So this begs the question. With the whole "me too" movement going on, are smart women digging their own graves? I mean, would it not be better if men and women worked together instead of having all female this or all female that? Just the other day I was invited for the first time to a meeting of "women in history". I did not attend, partly because I was not feeling well but partly because I didn´t want all the female colleagues to get to know me and stab me in the back later.

 

[Wyote]

are smart women digging their own graves?

I don't think smart women are involved in the movement tbh unless maybe they've been peer pressured.

but partly because I didn´t want all the female colleagues to get to know me and stab me in the back later.

You feeling that way about women says a lot. I think a lot of women feel the same, which is very unfortunate.

 

[Artemisia]

Wyote, I speak from experience. Sad but true.

 

[the]

How many women have you helped get a job?

 

[Artemisia]

How many women have you helped get a job?

I don´t have the power to make such a decision yet.

 

[Reason]

I don´t have the power to make such a decision yet.

You can pen a letter of recommendation for anyone can't you?

 

[Nixie]

INFJ thing or pussy thing? Dunno

 

[the]

I don´t have the power to make such a decision yet.

Are you talking about people helping you get a job or people directly hiring you?

 

[infinite dreams]

My experience is that the modern corporate world is very much a "best person for the job" environment. Companies nowadays are more efficiency-conscious than ever before; dead weight simply does not fly for very long.

Harder for me to comment on the state of academia as I've had no real exposure to that field (not since my own college years at least).

I don't think smart women are involved in the movement tbh unless maybe they've been peer pressured.

I'd never heard of this queen bee concept but now it has me intrigued and thinking about the psychological motivations. My first thought is it might be a perception among some women that there's (still, even today) only so much room for women to 'succeed' and once in that elevated position some of them feel the need to fiercely defend it.

 

[Pin]

I am attractive, dress professionally, and am well-mannered. But I have also published a lot and have the right credentials. There are other attractive women in academia so it is not like I am not the only one. Society keeps saying that go-getter type females are looked down upon by men. My experience has been different: men respect the go-getter type if she is also well-mannered and not overly competitive. I have found this to be true in a relationship also.

So this begs the question. With the whole "me too" movement going on, are smart women digging their own graves?

Yes.

I mean, would it not be better if men and women worked together instead of having all female this or all female that?

On a case-by-case basis.

Just the other day I was invited for the first time to a meeting of "women in history". I did not attend, partly because I was not feeling well but partly because I didn´t want all the female colleagues to get to know me and stab me in the back later.

Good instinct, that's the Julius Caesar in us all. From this moment on you are a rock. You absorb nothing, you say nothing, and nothing breaks you.

 

[acd]

Totally anecdotal post.. I have always worked in social services so maybe we're just a whole 'nother breed... but in my experience my female colleagues and I always helped each other out professionally. I remember leaving a job and moving to another company and my old coworker asking if there were openings and I referred her for a higher level position (I wasn't qualified for it) and she got it. Others have done the same for me. There was some cattiness with some women (coworkers or bosses) at times but it was rare. I had female bosses who told me at agencies that they were grooming me for more senior positions.

But I'm honestly not a super competitive cut-throat type person. I do my job because I give a shit and help my colleagues because I enjoy seeing them succeed. I actually remember working an entry level position and dropping out of college and my manager lecturing me on going back to school because she said I was capable of a lot more. She regularly would ask if I had registered for school yet, lol.. (And when I finished school, my female supervisors got me a cake and card at work.)

Then, I remember another manager letting me use all my PTO time to cover for one of my shifts over the course of an entire semester (I accrued a ton of time cuz I never took off) so that I could keep my position and finish school. My female colleagues and superiors have mostly been amazing. Maybe the Queen Bee thing happens. There are helpful and unhelpful people. My experience is different though.

In a way, I feel that many of my female supervisors and directors mentored me. Some saw things in me that I didn't. They encouraged me to do more and gave great references. Getting kinda emo remembering them now, but I'll always be so grateful. I had a few male directors who really didn't take any sort of role like that.

 

[the]

My old supervisor is a female and she got me into where she works.

 

[Wyote]

All the jobs I've gotten have been through white people.

opcorn: