a fight between friends | INFJ Forum

a fight between friends

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Jill Hives, Jul 19, 2014.

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  1. Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    Okay, so. Here is some backstory to this situation. The friend in question and I have been friends since middle school. This friend of mine has an obsessive compulsive hair pulling disorder, and she has dealt with it since she was very young.

    I want to share this, because I would honestly like to know how much of an asshole I really am in this situation. Sometimes I need some help pulling my head out of my ass. I perhaps ought to just get over myself and apologize, but I am fucking sick of this shit. I am sick of her playing the victim card and expecting other people to coddle her issues. SO sick of it. So honestly, fuck apologizing.

    -

    Me: got a new network card in my computer...heres to hoping my connection will finally stop dropping all the freaking time and making me want to rip out my hair! (not thinking...venting...this is something literally everyone says and in no way was intended as a jab at her)

    Her: Really. That's the phrase you'd choose to say? Sorry if I'm seeming bitchy but I figure after our recent talk and the 16 years of friendship you would be a little more empathetic.

    Me: really? I am sorry for not considering your every emotion when I am venting and using a totally normal phrase that every day people say. I understand why it might irk you, but honestly, that level of attention isn't something you should expect from anyone, it's extremely unfair. Not everything revolves around you and your issues.

    Her: You're so right. Be careful to not push your friends away.

    Me: It's your choice if you want to be offended by that kind of shit when you know better exactly what I mean. Maybe if you are so sensitive you should not talk to me, because I am not the sort of person to bother tip toeing around others sensitive areas, because in my opinion, your feelings are your own responsibility, aside from outright douchebaggery, in which I was in no way participating.

    Her: Ok. Maybe you should stop bragging about how sensitive you are. Everything you just said makes you contradict yourself. Of all the things in my life I could be sensitive about the worst is my hair. I honestly thought you'd respect my feelings. Yeah I chose to take offense over what you said. Because I thought you weren't as selfish as you apparently are. I hope your newly found self love and confidence treats you well.

    Me: Having empathy and being expected to so carefully choose your words so as to not offend, is entirely different. I would hope by now you know that I support you and your struggles with trich. But I would also hope that you take responsibility for your own feelings and realize that it is not everyone elses job to tip toe around your issues to avoid risking hurting your precious feelings.

    Her: The key word is respect. You're in a mental and emotional place where it's seems to outsiders that no matter what, you're right and everyone is wrong. I can respect that you are going through life altering stuff. If we are going to talk about owning up to our own precious feelings you should look in the mirror. Regardless of what I do or don't say, it won't matter. Because you have to be right. When you feel like you can respect me, maybe we can talk again. Or you could just say Fuck off to me and my feelings.

    Me: Not sure what you are referring to when you are telling me to look in the mirror regarding my own precious feelings, but whatever...I won't let other peoples personal issues dictate my every word or action, and that's the end of it. If I happen to remember that hey, mentioning anything related to hair is a sore point, then I remember. Am I going to bend over backwards walking on eggshells in order to protect someones feelings? Fuck no, and it's bullshit to expect anything remotely like that from anyone. I am just so done with that shit. Own your own shit, none of that is my responsibility. I can respect the struggles you have gone through, and I support you in fighting your demons, and it is my greatest hope that one day you can look your trich straight in its face and tell it to fuck off, along with your anxiety. I have no idea what road you need to take to get there, or if I could even possibly be of help. All I know is, not my circus, not my monkeys. I've got enough monkeys of my own. I am not taking any responsibility for anyone elses.

    Her: Like I said. Won't matter what I say. But I will say it anyway. I am not expecting you to bend over backwards. But ya know. Maybe a fucking apology is all I needed to hear because sometimes you're an insensitive fucking bitch. Good Bye. I hope your kids don't end up resenting you the rest of your life. It is such a shame that you don't give a shit about anyone but yourself.

    -

    So, I accidentally hurt her feelings. I get annoyed, say a lot of very blunt but very true things, and she resorts to vague and below the belt jabs in an attempt to "hurt me back". And guess what? It didn't work. Water off a ducks back. Hurt person spewing bullshit. Guess what, I know it's bullshit. Therefore, doesn't hurt me. Nice below the belt jab there bringing my kids into it, but it didn't work.

    I am just so over this kind of shit. If she feels the need to resort to that shit to make herself feel better over a completely innocent comment, fine. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

    I suppose right now, I am not the friend that she needs. Perhaps that is all that can be said.
     
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  2. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    Whatever you did she deserved it. She's probably just shocked that you didn't back down when she challenged you and she perceives that as assholery. Her ploy went sideways is what happened.
     
  3. Kanamori

    Kanamori Permanent Fixture

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    Neither are at fault totally, it's life, welcome to the happy fun time.
     
  4. OP
    Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    The more I think about this, the more I think I really was the one being the bigger asshole here. She caught me in a very bad mood at a very bad time and I blew up even more than I usually would have. Yes, it is annoying, I still believe all of what I said is mostly true. But...regardless of that...it doesn't mean that it should have been said... She also can't really help that it's a trigger point for her. She's not wrong that I ought to try to be more careful. I am like a bull in a china shop when I am pissed off. I am dramatic, I rant, I rave, and it does me no favors. All thought and care goes out the window and I am just pissed and worry about picking up the pieces later.

    She's so mad at me though that she has me blocked and unfriended. Or else I would actually apologize. I guess I will just wait a while.

    My stubborn side wants to not apologize still, but honestly, this kind of crap isn't worth losing friends over. If it isn't too late for that, that is....that is some of the harshest stuff I have ever said to her. She didn't deserve all of that. I didn't deserve the low blows she threw at me either though.

    But if anyones going to be apologizing here, it'll be me. I usually am the first one to fuck things up and the first one to try to make amends for it afterwards. That always seems to be how it goes...
     
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  5. hk427f3

    hk427f3 Community Member

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    I have a bit of a trich thing going on, but it's pretty mild.

    I think she's being kind of over sensitive, but I don't know what her experiences are like.
     
  6. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    No I think she is wrong. I have triggers too and I'd never expect this from somebody.

    Yeah you could have avoided it and made nice, but I think your original assessment that she expects too much with that was correct.

    Even in groups where trigger warnings are commonly used, nobody tiptoes THAT much. However you occasionally do get people who make a drama out of being triggered.
     
  7. OP
    Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    I do think it is unfair of her to expect me to tip toe around her. But I don't think she expects that. I think that when I do accidentally hurt her feelings though, she just wants me to apologize so that she can feel better and move on. I could get over myself enough to do that and then things would be fine.

    There is just that part of me that says...Why should I? I did nothing purposely malicious or mean to you. You are projecting your issues onto me. And then my defenses go up, and I become an asshole. Because it feels justified.

    But truthfully, if we made our relationships with others about who is right and who is wrong all of the time, how could any of us be friends? Compassion and understanding wins friends, not being right.
     
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  8. OP
    Jill Hives

    Jill Hives fhtagn
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    [MENTION=3667]Meer[/MENTION], her experience with it is extremely severe. She has shaved her head because of it and wears wigs. She has in the past pulled out all of her eyelashes as well.

    But, I don't think of her as my friend suffering from trichotillomania. I think of her just as she is. As a human, as my friend. It doesn't occur to me to cater my words to her in that way because I do not think of her in terms of her illness identity. However, it is a huge part of who she is, and she DOES identify with it. In fact she's pretty much built her whole identity around this mental illness. This is something about her that has bothered me for a very long time, but...everyone deals with their shit in their own way. She's owning it, trying to come to terms with it in her own ways. I should not judge her. I do feel as though she's got victim mentality and it's a very convenient excuse for her not to try. To just accept her fate as "what she is".

    But that is her life to choose. And not my place to judge. I would want the same from others. Especially in the place I am now.

    I really do need to work on my compassion and to try and stop sticking my foot down my throat so often... It is something I appreciate in others and therefore I should at least try to incorporate that myself.
     
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  9. La Sagna

    La Sagna Trying to become a butterfly

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    Wouldn't it have been simpler just to say sorry that I used that turn of phrase? Perhaps that would have ended it all there and everybody would be fine. Personally I think you were being insensitive.
     
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  10. linger

    linger Community Member

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    Reading the conversation it seems like you both said things that are probably worth regretting. It's not that the feelings behind them aren't valid, just that communication between friends broke down and turned into somewhat careless emotional reactions (yours, frustration and hers, disrespect). I hope you get a chance to talk with her. I feel like if she is a good friend, she'll also want to own up for the insensitivity of her own response.

    Sorry things got shitty. like you said, it happens in relationships. The test is always how you recover from these super-awesome moments.
     
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  11. SpecialEdition

    SpecialEdition Well-known member

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    Wow.

    That escalated quickly and unnecessarily.

    Sorry, but I think you were the asshole in the situation. Regardless of whatever mood you were in, the hair thing is obviously a very serious thing if she's gone as far as shaving her head and wearing wigs. I have done the hair pulling thing myself but not to the extreme. I can usually stop myself before I pull out ALL eyelashes and eyebrows and such, but sometimes I don't stop soon enough. So I can have some understanding for where she's at.

    It would have been easier to just have said "Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I said that." She might have been sensitive about it, but then you flipped your fucking shit on her "bluntly," refused to take any responsibility for what you said (even though I don't agree with tip-toeing, this could have been smoothed over with a simple apology) and basically threw all of her feelings and her reactions into the blender and handed them back to her for her to drink. Kind of shitty of you.
     
  12. SpecialEdition

    SpecialEdition Well-known member

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    THAT SAID.

    I don't believe in playing into a victim mentality. If this is a very common behaviour with her and she constantly over-reacts to things (this situation aside) and won't take responsibility for HER OWN feelings, that is an issue. But this is not the way to address it.
     
  13. niffer

    niffer Well-known member

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    Yeah I think that considering you have been friends with her for so long, you should have developed that place in your conscience for her and for being sensitive enough towards her that you don't use certain turns of phrases flippantly by now. I think this is a classic display of INFP selfishness and I think that her response to you in the whole was totally warranted. I would have had the exact same train of thought as her (if it was something that I was very sensitive about). Keep in mind that I think it's not too late to apologize, and also that part of the reason that she reacted so strongly is because you probably have an important role in her life, and maybe she respects you enough to know that she can expect a high level of empathy from you. I also think that you were clearly both having built up frustrations from other factors--I bet she was probably harboring irritation towards you for a while about some aspects of your personality to do with the things she raged at you about, and in your case I can see how her mentality and a desire not to enable it on your part or to always be reminded of it and have your minor actions being policed by her would be very frustrating.
     
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  14. niffer

    niffer Well-known member

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    The forum is being weird and not letting me edit my posts, but I also wanted to add: I can empathize with you initially being taken aback. I can understand why it escalated, and I also think she should not have been the first to call you selfish even if she was feeling that way. I don't think that was reasonable.
     
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  15. niffer

    niffer Well-known member

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    I also think that she should have considered that you are in a time of change and instability, and so she should have been more lenient...
     
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  16. DonTaushMe

    DonTaushMe Well-known member

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    [MENTION=3240]Jill Hives[/MENTION] -Lulz INFP problemz.

    "Her: Really. That's the phrase you'd choose to say? Sorry if I'm seeming bitchy but I figure after our recent talk and the 16 years of friendship you would be a little more empathetic." <-This, this would have pissed me the fuck off.

    There's a reason why we go off on people, it's not just that one thing that happened that made us mad at the person so much so we bitch them out and it sounds like you know this. You said she expects this a lot and says shitty little over the top things like this in order to get people to bow at her feet, well I personally wouldn't stand for that for one second.

    I understand you have been friends with her since forever ago, but understand this -she will keep doing this exact thing and knowing yourself, how long before you blow up at her again? If she had said '...' That would have sufficed, but she didn't, she said you lack empathy from your 16 year relationship -well where the fuck is her empathy?! You've had to deal with her shit for 16 years! Lol...
    XD

    In all seriousness, do you really want this chick as a friend? Does she help you in your journey through life or is she just a burden, cause right now she just sounds like a fucking burden.

    And that quick little 'THIS BITCH!' turned to 'I should apologize :( ' lol I understand that too, but we don't flip shit unless something someone does is a constant and this chick sounds like she pulls this shit constantly. Do you want to keep dealing with her 'whoa is me' act? If so then apologize. And really, even if you apologize and make it clear that you can't hold your tongue on spur of the moment stuff it wont change a thing. I have been down this road with many and I can do all the changing in the world for them but they all seem to stay the same. If you like her same then go down that road with her, I'm just letting you know, this is how it's gonna be. For another... 16 years x.x DUN DUN DUN
     
  17. the

    the Si master race.
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    I feel like she's not wrong. You knew what you were saying and you know what she's like. To expect anything different is self centered on your part.
     
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  18. OP
    Jill Hives

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    All of you have very good points. I've already sent her a long apology about all of this. I do feel really horrible that I blew up at her in that way. It's a huge fault of mine, I don't handle stress well at all. I get agitated and whoever is in the way at the time ends up burned. It's just not good at all...

    Thanks for offering me a little more perspective guys.
     
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  19. DonTaushMe

    DonTaushMe Well-known member

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    *shrug* I still say fuck 'er. Probably why INFPs aren't good together ;)
     
  20. Rcs6r

    Rcs6r Must be the feeling~
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    Good to hear you are trying to make amends with your friend.

    The thing about our personality type is we must always try to practice mindfulness, especially when communicating with other people.

    What was the recent talk you had with your friend? It sounds like it had to do with her condition, and so would be understandable that she would be insulted by a simple turn-of-phrase. However, you have described her as playing the victim...

    On one hand I empathize with her very much; I don't know what it is like to have a compulsion to pull my hair out so much that I have to wear a wig, and having this condition since early adolescence, but I imagine that as an adult woman who just wants to live normal like everyone else this is a cause of depression and desperation. She should not use this condition to manipulate people though. Sixteen years of friendship is a long time, she probably depends on you to be her consolation.

    Once you two have made up, perhaps she should consider a sort of cognitive therapy of sorts, to help control her behavior both physically and mentally? I am a bit ignorant on the condition though and maybe it is not something that can be helped.
     
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