Am I INTP? | INFJ Forum

Am I INTP?

wolly.green

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Jul 20, 2016
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I thought I was an INFJ until I realized just how important logical consistency is to me. Its so important I can't stand to be around people that let their emotions or feelings get in the way of drawing coherent conclusions. Now, is this typical of an INFJ as well? Do INFJ's care deeply about logical consistency?
 
I am an INFJ and I care very much about logical consistency. However, I also care very much about not hurting people's feelings. This makes for a very complicated dynamic where I have to shut up most of the time when I hear illogical arguments from people who can't handle being challenged for their inconsistencies, which seems to be most people. I try to gently point out inconsistencies to people to either try to make them understand the flaws in their arguments or to test new people to see if I can have a rational discussion with them. The relief I feel when I do find someone who can have a logical argument is immense because I can actually speak and not walk on eggshells to try to not hurt people's egos. The battle between my need for social harmony and my need to search for the true objective core of any issue is very difficult to balance. Even though I am frustrated that people don't share these values, I understand why they don't because it is exhausting. I sometimes wish I could also be happy being blissfully ignorant and willfully subjective all the while not caring for others to the extent that I do.
 
Thanks for your input. I also feel this same frustration! Its horribly annoying.
 
First I assume you're working from the cognitive functions theory, based on your question. The gist of this is that I think F judgment is rational but isn't necessarily predominantly about logical structure -- a lot of typically T pursuits spend a tremendous amount of time turning an intuition into a coherent logical machine. I think F reasoning is inherently more psychological -- it's still got a sense of coherency, and it has to at least not contradict logic, but a lot of the meat of it is psychological and/or considering collective attitudes.

Of course it's not strange for a NiFeTi type to have strong Ti too, but still, the imparting of value is a different kind of reasoning that the emphasis should be on more. And it is absolutely judgment, and does involve feeling-tones, but it's not about the experience of those tones so much as the way to attach them to cognitive content.

Intuitive dominants have a different feel from logic dominants (e.g. I have a different feel in how I think -- intuitions are not as rigidly defined as logical ideas, and their fuzzy level of definition can only exist in the mind, not in a more explicit setting -- think the idea behind the equations vs the equations themselves). Getting annoyed as you say is certainly not going to necessitate T-dominance, I can think of NiT types who also would feel similarly.
Of course if what I say makes you think of T-dominance you could be one!
 
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@wolly.green

Maybe. Are you an INTJ? The P doesn't seem to fit with your explanation. I'm pretty new at this and am open to hearing why you might think/feel/grok that. Thanks.
 
ISTJ for sure.
 
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ISTJ for sure.

Now I know I am not an ISTJ, since they prefer structure and routine and I prefer to commit as little as possible. And I can't be an S since Im more into philosophy and metaphysics than the hard sciences.
 
First I assume you're working from the cognitive functions theory, based on your question. The gist of this is that I think F judgment is rational but isn't necessarily predominantly about logical structure -- a lot of typically T pursuits spend a tremendous amount of time turning an intuition into a coherent logical machine. I think F reasoning is inherently more psychological -- it's still got a sense of coherency, and it has to at least not contradict logic, but a lot of the meat of it is psychological and/or considering collective attitudes.

Of course it's not strange for a NiFeTi type to have strong Ti too, but still, the imparting of value is a different kind of reasoning that the emphasis should be on more. And it is absolutely judgment, and does involve feeling-tones, but it's not about the experience of those tones so much as the way to attach them to cognitive content.

Intuitive dominants have a different feel from logic dominants (e.g. I have a different feel in how I think -- intuitions are not as rigidly defined as logical ideas, and their fuzzy level of definition can only exist in the mind, not in a more explicit setting -- think the idea behind the equations vs the equations themselves). Getting annoyed as you say is certainly not going to necessitate T-dominance, I can think of NiT types who also would feel similarly.
Of course if what I say makes you think of T-dominance you could be one!

Thanks, I am definitely not a dominant intuitive since most of my ideas are not fuzzy; they are defined explicitly. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Just to be clear, N-doms with good T can develop their intuitions rigorously, precisely. But somehow the focus of Ti-doms is a lot more evidently on giving shape/definition. Even after the Ne-dom finishes a rigorous theory they still remember the fuzzy intuition leading to it and see a thousand other ways one could have built a logical framework. They don't seem to sink their teeth quite as firmly as Ti-doms do into the Ti space

I am usually quite curious on how to build interesting frameworks to capture ideas, but there's a kind of airy skepticism that's different from how Ti-doms approach logical argument.
 
Just to be clear, N-doms with good T can develop their intuitions rigorously, precisely. But somehow the focus of Ti-doms is a lot more evidently on giving shape/definition. Even after the Ne-dom finishes a rigorous theory they still remember the fuzzy intuition leading to it and see a thousand other ways one could have built a logical framework. They don't seem to sink their teeth quite as firmly as Ti-doms do into the Ti space

This is really interesting. I totally agree that its possible to formalize fuzzy intuitions in many different ways. But I reached this idea through Godels Incompleteness Theorem. Its was logical deduction for me, not a fuzzy intuition itself. What about you?
 
I think the thing is both NTPs can agree one can formalize in different ways -- the question is which does one view as more interesting and fundamental? Keeping the fuzzy intuition in the mind's eye, or not not missing ways one can actually build a coherent framework? I find Ti-doms have a bit quicker of an eye for the latter.

Godel is an interesting case. I'm not sure if he was more an N or a T type actually. While his results symbolize a more T approach, it's interesting to consider that the man may have been more N-ish in his motivations. May! I'm not quite sure of that. It's a good question you raise. He seemed to have certain grandiose intuitions for what logic/mathematics is all about and might have viewed his theorems as the outcome of a passion to capture those. I find it interesting that he was led to argue against materialism and so on. Sounds like he could've been pretty N-ish to me!

But just going off of the incompleteness theorems, that's very T stuff. I can certainly see a Ti-dom really love his stuff but have a slightly different attitude to it. More of a logic logic logic attitude.

It's important to note I can't arrive at stuff by pure Ne, and another can't by pure Ti, it's definitely a mix; one can't conclude anything from an intuition held only in the mind without making it explicit in some way...really the question tends to be where much of the energy going to the brain is spent :)
 
I think the thing is both NTPs can agree one can formalize in different ways -- the question is which does one view as more interesting and fundamental? Keeping the fuzzy intuition in the mind's eye, or not not missing ways one can actually build a coherent framework? I find Ti-doms have a bit quicker of an eye for the latter.

Godel is an interesting case. I'm not sure if he was more an N or a T type actually. While his results symbolize a more T approach, it's interesting to consider that the man may have been more N-ish in his motivations. May! I'm not quite sure of that. It's a good question you raise. He seemed to have certain grandiose intuitions for what logic/mathematics is all about and might have viewed his theorems as the outcome of a passion to capture those. I find it interesting that he was led to argue against materialism and so on. Sounds like he could've been pretty N-ish to me!

But just going off of the incompleteness theorems, that's very T stuff.

It's important to note I can't arrive at stuff by pure Ne, and another can't by pure Ti, it's definitely a mix; one can't conclude anything from an intuition held only in the mind without making it explicit in some way...really the question tends to be where all the energy going to the brain is spent :)


Yeah N types do prefer the immaterial over the material. Im surprised you know who Godel is. Did you study mathematics as well?
 
I am overall educated on/interested in technical subjects! Mathematics, physics, etc. Though I really enjoy introspection, and Jung/etc was a lot of fun as a result. But overall I know more about technical fields than psychology.
 
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Now I know I am not an ISTJ, since they prefer structure and routine and I prefer to commit as little as possible. And I can't be an S since Im more into philosophy and metaphysics than the hard sciences.

You crave the structure in mbti for one thing. The science of mbti.
 
You crave the structure in mbti for one thing. The science of mbti.

Sure, but this is a Ti kind of structure not standardized, factual Te kind of structure. In fact, I would go as far as to say I hate standardization since it violates my independence.
 
Sure, but this is a Ti kind of structure not standardized, factual Te kind of structure. In fact, I would go as far as to say I hate standardization since it violates my independence.
Mbti is standardized.