Politician statement about so-called "legitimate" rape | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Politician statement about so-called "legitimate" rape

And you are being theorizing as well, you are stating that as a woman is raped, the PUNISHMENT of a child will be too great, and so in order to make the woman feel better they will make a snippet into the fetus and vacuum life's greatest achievement. It does not matter how the mother feels, because there is life inside of her. Sure, call me a misogynist, he-man woman hater, or a republican. It doesn't matter. The blood of that child is on every single persons hand who supports abortion. It is a horrible institution propagated by a racist, sexist eugenist (spelling?) who's only dream is to objectify women all the while pretending to crusade for them.

What I was saying (or was trying to say) was that we don't know how any person will feel until they are in that position, and therefore should not decide for them what they should do or what choices they ought to have available, but need to support them and their decision, including coming to that decision. Give them the freedom to decide what they need in order to cope. Perhaps that is theorizing as well, but it seems to make a hell of a lot of sense to not prescribe for someone what they need to choose for themselves.

You are aware that backdoor abortions have existed for centuries, all over the world, far longer than abortion has been legal medical practice?
 
What I was saying (or was trying to say) was that we don't know how any person will feel until they are in that position, and therefore should not decide for them what they should do or what choices they ought to have available, but need to support them and their decision, including coming to that decision. Give them the freedom to decide what they need in order to cope. Perhaps that is theorizing as well, but it seems to make a hell of a lot of sense to not prescribe for someone what they need to choose for themselves.

You are aware that backdoor abortions have existed for centuries, all over the world, far longer than abortion has been legal medical practice?

And I'm boiling it down to this: How a woman feels, supersedes the life inside of them?

And murder has existed for even longer. It was legal in some societies also.
 
And I'm boiling it down to this: How a woman feels, supersedes the life inside of them?

And murder has existed for even longer. It was legal in some societies also.

Yes her feelings supersede the cluster of cells growing in her. How is that a question? Its not like women are all having abortions at fuckin 7 or 8 months... those cases are rare. And I find it odd Saru that you take the same view as the people who think you personally are going to hell for a "choice" of being gay. I mean really dude?
 
Yes her feelings supersede the cluster of cells growing in her. How is that a question? Its not like women are all having abortions at fuckin 7 or 8 months... those cases are rare. And I find it odd Saru that you take the same view as the people who think you personally are going to hell for a "choice" of being gay. I mean really dude?

Technically we're all clusters of cells, if we're going there. The idea that a child is a cluster of cells and not a life, is simply an excuse to not feel bad about killing someone. Or, shall I quote the Editng Room:

CHRISTIAN BALE
Actually, I did kill Aaron Eckhart. People keep acting like I falsely took the blame for that, but it was the murder of cops that I took the blame for. I straight-up shoved Eckhart off a building and he fell to his death.
JOSEPH GORDON-LEVITT
Yeah well, when he got half of his face blown off by he-who-must-not-be-named, that's when he TRULY died. Inside.
CHRISTIAN BALE
Yeah, I'm sure that would hold up in court. "Your honor, he was sad first."
Source: http://www.cracked.com/article_20012_if-dark-knight-rises-was-10-times-shorter-more-honest.html

Pro-choicers are so comfortable making assumptions about so many things, (not to say pro-lifers aren't), but to assume that a fertilized egg isn't life because it somehow won't become a baby on its own...?


Its a feel goodery murder.


Also: on the gay note:

I'm not siding with anyone who hates me. I'm siding with idea that life is precious, no matter what form its in.

Also I take from your post that I should hate people who think differently than me. Gotcha.

 
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Technically we're all clusters of cells, if we're going there. The idea that a child is a cluster of cells and not a life, is simply an excuse to not feel bad about killing someone. Or, shall I quote the Editng Room:

CHRISTIAN BALE
Actually, I did kill Aaron Eckhart. People keep acting like I falsely took the blame for that, but it was the murder of cops that I took the blame for. I straight-up shoved Eckhart off a building and he fell to his death.
JOSEPH GORDON-LEVITT
Yeah well, when he got half of his face blown off by he-who-must-not-be-named, that's when he TRULY died. Inside.
CHRISTIAN BALE
Yeah, I'm sure that would hold up in court. "Your honor, he was sad first."
Source: http://www.cracked.com/article_20012_if-dark-knight-rises-was-10-times-shorter-more-honest.html

Pro-choicers are so comfortable making assumptions about so many things, (not to say pro-lifers aren't), but to assume that a fertilized egg isn't life because it somehow won't become a baby on its own...?


Its a feel goodery murder.


Also: on the gay note:

I'm not siding with anyone who hates me. I'm siding with idea that life is precious, no matter what form its in.

Also I take from your post that I should hate people who think differently than me. Gotcha.


No I just wonder where you are getting your data from. I don't recall you being this conservative before. You are practically toeing the party line. And if a fertilized egg is a human, why isnt a single sperm cell? Are you murdering billions every time you masturbate? A human being is not a cluster of cells, a cluster of cells is a cluster of cells. Human beings are far more complex than that. They are entire systems of organs, attached to a brain with feelings and emotions and memories and lives. A Zygote is nothing. If you're such a big fan of life, you must not like God very much since he spontaneously aborts (miscarries) the majority of pregnancies, not to mention all those natural disasters. I dont want you to think I am yelling at you Saru, I actually am quite fond of you. But your demeanor is different lately. It makes me curious as to why.
 
And I'm boiling it down to this: How a woman feels, supersedes the life inside of them?

And murder has existed for even longer. It was legal in some societies also.

I don't know, Saru.
It's just a terrible circumstance all around.
But should a woman be forced to have something grow inside of her, change her physiology and hormonal levels permanently, affect her body permanently and leave emotional attachments, go through the process of pregnancy, and then have to commit to raising a human being and everything that goes along with that or suffer the immense lifelong pain of giving that little person up? No, I don't know. I don't know if a fetus is life, but if it is I don't think it is well developed enough to be sufficiently valuable at that point to take the place of the existing person's rights. That probably sounds terrible to you; for what it's worth, I'm sorry. I can imagine how I might feel about my position if I held your argument.
I also think many times we place the ideals of life above the realities that this person-to-be will face when coming into the world unwanted and without people to care for it, love it, and provide for it. No one deserves the kind of shit some foster kids go through, or feeling like their parents don't really want them. Or being brought up in a world where their needs cannot be met. And the rest of society doesn't deserve that kind of burden, either, imo.
It's a terrible sitaution all around, it is.
 
And I'm boiling it down to this: How a woman feels, supersedes the life inside of them?

And murder has existed for even longer. It was legal in some societies also.

Yep.

How a woman feels, thinks, believes, and who a woman is supersedes the zygote or fetus inside of them.
Absolutely. After all, that woman is the one who has to grow it and raise it and sacrifice for it. You can't do that for her.
It's her body, she should have the autonomy to make that decision.

What makes anyone think a cluster of cells is entitled to more human rights than an actual person?
Because you are a Christian and you believe God has preordained all life?
Well, your personal beliefs should have no authority over anyone else's body or choices.

So basically, as soon as a woman becomes pregnant, she becomes a second class citizen to the cells that are growing inside her.
I don't know how to explain this to you. Perhaps because you are a man, or maybe perhaps you seem to be incapable of empathizing with women at all.
Reproduction should be a personal choice, and it should never be forced upon someone. It is dehumanizing and traumatizing to treat women in such a way.

To say that a woman who becomes pregnant by her rapist should carry to term is cruel.
I don't know if you are capable of comprehending that.
It's easy to tell someone what the right thing to do is based on your very limited experience in life and cultural rearing on the subject.
You may feel self-righteous right now. You may feel morally superior. Good for you.

But I'd like to see you sit in an ER with a rape victim for five hours--who has been savagely violated and brutalized mind, body, and soul.
Do you even have the courage to face these women you claim to know so much about what is good for them and their offspring?
I'll bet you can't even begin to comprehend.

But the bible tells you God knew ye in the womb. So that means you know everything.

So basically, when a woman conceives, her body becomes the property of the federal government, who in turn, dumps the baby off on her as soon as it's born..

Wouldn't it be something if we had, like, telekinetic technology that could instantly zap an unwanted zygote or fetus out of a woman's body and onto a simulated womb-wall in Todd Akin or Rick Santorum or @Saru Inc 's house? Then you could raise all those rape babies you and the gang claim to care so much about!
 
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No I just wonder where you are getting your data from. I don't recall you being this conservative before. You are practically toeing the party line. And if a fertilized egg is a human, why isnt a single sperm cell? Are you murdering billions every time you masturbate? A human being is not a cluster of cells, a cluster of cells is a cluster of cells. Human beings are far more complex than that. They are entire systems of organs, attached to a brain with feelings and emotions and memories and lives. A Zygote is nothing. If you're such a big fan of life, you must not like God very much since he spontaneously aborts (miscarries) the majority of pregnancies, not to mention all those natural disasters. I dont want you to think I am yelling at you Saru, I actually am quite fond of you. But your demeanor is different lately. It makes me curious as to why.


I know you're not 'yelling' at me, thus why I posted Cracked.com, to try and liven this thing up. Also I'm not sure what data you're questioning, unless that was simply an idiom.

I've always been conservative, people tend to assume I'm not because I'm ok with gays and not racist or whatever reason they have. I used to be a liberal in high school, but I took a good look around me, and all the liberal morals and policies I saw, were inherently flawed and self destructing, i.e. they set out to eventually reinstate the exact thing they originally want to stop.

I am for equality of all, though I am a Christian,we are commanded to love our enemies, and since love is respect in its highest form, I respect them and their views of life. I'm a very much so (as Jefferson said) 'it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg" then continue living. The only place where I step in and 'enforce' my 'values' on 'others' is on issues of abortion, and as in some cases religion in the public arena. I do not side with republicans, because I couldn't give a crap what they think of gays, I'm not thinking of gays, I'm thinking of the children. I understand what people are saying when they state the child isn't a child until a certain stage, I don't think you're crazy, I simply do not agree. Also abortions are becoming out of control, Australian ethicists are stating 'what is a full birth abortion but a late stage partial birth?' People say "well Saru that's crazy we'd never agree with that!"

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/02/28/ethicists-in-australia-call-for-after-birth-abortions/

And normally I'd agree, but before people said "we would only abort until a certain point, we would NEVER abort after month 3 (or so)" and yet in some places partial birth abortions are legal. Some people call me a woman hating gay when I state I'm pro life but that's funniest thing: I respect women, and that is why I'm against abortion. What is a more honorable view of a woman: a woman is able to bring life into this world through a miraculous process, and even if it comes from -horrible- beginnings, it can turn into a beautiful thing OR, a woman is someone who is able to bring life into this world, unless she doesn't want to, then she can just say "alright nature, I don't agree."

I'm not about to start spouting off how every woman gets abortions everyday of the week, because that's not the argument I'm making, nor do I think that happens. The argument I'm making is that its murder, because once the cells start multiplying and dividing, life has -already- begun. Guys, I'm not against birth control pills, condoms, or hell go ahead and get some dildos and dental dams and make it a party. I'm against sancitifying playing God. Masturbation isn't the same, because life has not begun, I agree it is just 'cells.' Though almost all Christians are against masturbation, that's really only because it 9 times out of ten involves lusting, some Christians even argue if you masturbate without lust it isn't wrong at all. (Goes for men and women).

Cells are just cells. So sperm and eggs can just fly out like Syrians fleeing the border. Its fertilized eggs where the beginnings of life have begun, that I have a big issue with. Al Gore can extrapolate that from preliminary data the earth will flood like in day after tomorrow, but to extrapolate that a fertilized egg will become life is far fetched? It doesn't matter because its not yet? While I'm not saying you Billy are arguing this, if you agree that a fertilized egg left alone has a high probability to become 'life,' then why is it ok?The ozone layer isn't gone yet, so that means I can just go outside and watch Hairspray with my republican friends spraying hairspray into the atmosphere until the sun melts us all.

God gives life, and he takes it away. Man created death, not God. As far as the Tsunamis and stuff like that, yes people die. But that's not the question at hand, we are not discussing should life be precious if apparently 10 people a year die by having vending machines fall on them. We are discussing is it ok to willingly halt the cells of a fertizlied egg from continuing on, in order to make a woman feel better about herself.

Also I've been on a binge lately with my conservatism because I am sick and tired of being silenced as racist, sexist, homophobic (by those who don't know I'm gay), poor-haterer, free speech squasher, all for believing differently. I'm being called a nutcase for believing in a way of life, but I cannot call anyone else a nutcase for what they believe, because I am the defacto nutcase.


**For the record, I do not support the Republican party in any way, I don't even think I'll be voting for Romney. Since he made $50 abortions in Massachusetts.
@oceanbreeze,

I understand what you're saying, while there are places and ways to put children for adoption no questions asked, I understand that is a very difficult thing to do and some might argue more painful than abortion. I am not insensitive to that aspect, as I've had a few friends who have given birth and were torn between giving it up for adoption, or keeping it, knowing their low income job can't support it. Thats why I am all for supporting women, I feel like the money that we spend federally funding planned parenthood centers should go to places for mothers who are poor but want their child to have a good life where they can receive support, care, advice, etc. It absolutely is a terrible situation, but that doesn't make abortion ok, and that's I guess the point I want to make. I'm not saying any of this is a good thing, but abortion isn't the answer. This also plays into other aspects of our culture, when we promote a promiscuous life style, men are more likely to take things such as that for granted.
 
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"in order to make her feel good about herself"

That's not what is going on. It's not about feeling good. Its about who has rights to their own bodies and their own morality.
 
I know you're not 'yelling' at me, thus why I posted Cracked.com, to try and liven this thing up. Also I'm not sure what data you're questioning, unless that was simply an idiom.

I've always been conservative, people tend to assume I'm not because I'm ok with gays and not racist or whatever reason they have. I used to be a liberal in high school, but I took a good look around me, and all the liberal morals and policies I saw, were inherently flawed and self destructing, i.e. they set out to eventually reinstate the exact thing they originally want to stop.

I am for equality of all, though I am a Christian,we are commanded to love our enemies, and since love is respect in its highest form, I respect them and their views of life. I'm a very much so (as Jefferson said) 'it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg" then continue living. The only place where I step in and 'enforce' my 'values' on 'others' is on issues of abortion, and as in some cases religion in the public arena. I do not side with republicans, because I couldn't give a crap what they think of gays, I'm not thinking of gays, I'm thinking of the children. I understand what people are saying when they state the child isn't a child until a certain stage, I don't think you're crazy, I simply do not agree. Also abortions are becoming out of control, Australian ethicists are stating 'what is a full birth abortion but a late stage partial birth?' People say "well Saru that's crazy we'd never agree with that!"

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/02/28/ethicists-in-australia-call-for-after-birth-abortions/

And normally I'd agree, but before people said "we would only abort until a certain point, we would NEVER abort after month 3 (or so)" and yet in some places partial birth abortions are legal. Some people call me a woman hating gay when I state I'm pro life but that's funniest thing: I respect women, and that is why I'm against abortion. What is a more honorable view of a woman: a woman is able to bring life into this world through a miraculous process, and even if it comes from -horrible- beginnings, it can turn into a beautiful thing OR, a woman is someone who is able to bring life into this world, unless she doesn't want to, then she can just say "alright nature, I don't agree."

I'm not about to start spouting off how every woman gets abortions everyday of the week, because that's not the argument I'm making, nor do I think that happens. The argument I'm making is that its murder, because once the cells start multiplying and dividing, life has -already- begun. Guys, I'm not against birth control pills, condoms, or hell go ahead and get some dildos and dental dams and make it a party. I'm against sancitifying playing God. Masturbation isn't the same, because life has not begun, I agree it is just 'cells.' Though almost all Christians are against masturbation, that's really only because it 9 times out of ten involves lusting, some Christians even argue if you masturbate without lust it isn't wrong at all. (Goes for men and women).

Cells are just cells. So sperm and eggs can just fly out like Syrians fleeing the border. Its fertilized eggs where the beginnings of life have begun, that I have a big issue with. Al Gore can extrapolate that from preliminary data the earth will flood like in day after tomorrow, but to extrapolate that a fertilized egg will become life is far fetched? It doesn't matter because its not yet? While I'm not saying you Billy are arguing this, if you agree that a fertilized egg left alone has a high probability to become 'life,' then why is it ok?The ozone layer isn't gone yet, so that means I can just go outside and watch Hairspray with my republican friends spraying hairspray into the atmosphere until the sun melts us all.

God gives life, and he takes it away. Man created death, not God. As far as the Tsunamis and stuff like that, yes people die. But that's not the question at hand, we are not discussing should life be precious if apparently 10 people a year die by having vending machines fall on them. We are discussing is it ok to willingly halt the cells of a fertizlied egg from continuing on, in order to make a woman feel better about herself.

Also I've been on a binge lately with my conservatism because I am sick and tired of being silenced as racist, sexist, homophobic (by those who don't know I'm gay), poor-haterer, free speech squasher, all for believing differently. I'm being called a nutcase for believing in a way of life, but I cannot call anyone else a nutcase for what they believe, because I am the defacto nutcase.


**For the record, I do not support the Republican party in any way, I don't even think I'll be voting for Romney. Since he made $50 abortions in Massachusetts.
@oceanbreeze,

I understand what you're saying, while there are places and ways to put children for adoption no questions asked, I understand that is a very difficult thing to do and some might argue more painful than abortion. I am not insensitive to that aspect, as I've had a few friends who have given birth and were torn between giving it up for adoption, or keeping it, knowing their low income job can't support it. Thats why I am all for supporting women, I feel like the money that we spend federally funding planned parenthood centers should go to places for mothers who are poor but want their child to have a good life where they can receive support, care, advice, etc. It absolutely is a terrible situation, but that doesn't make abortion ok, and that's I guess the point I want to make. I'm not saying any of this is a good thing, but abortion isn't the answer. This also plays into other aspects of our culture, when we promote a promiscuous life style, men are more likely to take things such as that for granted.

That is the most condescending misogynist thing you could have said in this thread.
It sounds like women are just breeders to you.

You are gay! And dare I say it, a hypocrite!

You should be out making babies according to your beliefs, instead, you are a homosexual who condemns women. It's hideously laughable! You are like the Jew in the ghetto who sold out his neighbors to the nazis so they could take him to the camp on the next shipment!

You aren't against birth control pills, but you are against abortion because it is "Playing God." I think you are confused.

Did it ever occur to you that other people do not believe in God and would appreciate the autonomy to make decisions for themselves without you and others like you butting in with your illogical ideologies?
Why should your religious beliefs even matter in this debate?

Why is it that actual women aren't able to enact legislation and defend themselves on this front? Why are women denied to speak about this issue in hearings that concern them?
Why should the Catholic Church, a male run organization get to dictate what they will and will not accept for women? Why do politicians, the majority of which are men, get to silence women at hearings concerning their own bodies to enact or propose or debate legislation regarding women's bodies?

But now we have a gay male Christian who is going to tell women what their bodies are good for, and ultimately, what is good for women.
 
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I know you're not 'yelling' at me, thus why I posted Cracked.com, to try and liven this thing up. Also I'm not sure what data you're questioning, unless that was simply an idiom.

I've always been conservative, people tend to assume I'm not because I'm ok with gays and not racist or whatever reason they have. I used to be a liberal in high school, but I took a good look around me, and all the liberal morals and policies I saw, were inherently flawed and self destructing, i.e. they set out to eventually reinstate the exact thing they originally want to stop.

I am for equality of all, though I am a Christian,we are commanded to love our enemies, and since love is respect in its highest form, I respect them and their views of life. I'm a very much so (as Jefferson said) 'it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg" then continue living. The only place where I step in and 'enforce' my 'values' on 'others' is on issues of abortion, and as in some cases religion in the public arena. I do not side with republicans, because I couldn't give a crap what they think of gays, I'm not thinking of gays, I'm thinking of the children. I understand what people are saying when they state the child isn't a child until a certain stage, I don't think you're crazy, I simply do not agree. Also abortions are becoming out of control, Australian ethicists are stating 'what is a full birth abortion but a late stage partial birth?' People say "well Saru that's crazy we'd never agree with that!"

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/02/28/ethicists-in-australia-call-for-after-birth-abortions/

And normally I'd agree, but before people said "we would only abort until a certain point, we would NEVER abort after month 3 (or so)" and yet in some places partial birth abortions are legal. Some people call me a woman hating gay when I state I'm pro life but that's funniest thing: I respect women, and that is why I'm against abortion. What is a more honorable view of a woman: a woman is able to bring life into this world through a miraculous process, and even if it comes from -horrible- beginnings, it can turn into a beautiful thing OR, a woman is someone who is able to bring life into this world, unless she doesn't want to, then she can just say "alright nature, I don't agree."

I'm not about to start spouting off how every woman gets abortions everyday of the week, because that's not the argument I'm making, nor do I think that happens. The argument I'm making is that its murder, because once the cells start multiplying and dividing, life has -already- begun. Guys, I'm not against birth control pills, condoms, or hell go ahead and get some dildos and dental dams and make it a party. I'm against sancitifying playing God. Masturbation isn't the same, because life has not begun, I agree it is just 'cells.' Though almost all Christians are against masturbation, that's really only because it 9 times out of ten involves lusting, some Christians even argue if you masturbate without lust it isn't wrong at all. (Goes for men and women).

Cells are just cells. So sperm and eggs can just fly out like Syrians fleeing the border. Its fertilized eggs where the beginnings of life have begun, that I have a big issue with. Al Gore can extrapolate that from preliminary data the earth will flood like in day after tomorrow, but to extrapolate that a fertilized egg will become life is far fetched? It doesn't matter because its not yet? While I'm not saying you Billy are arguing this, if you agree that a fertilized egg left alone has a high probability to become 'life,' then why is it ok?The ozone layer isn't gone yet, so that means I can just go outside and watch Hairspray with my republican friends spraying hairspray into the atmosphere until the sun melts us all.

God gives life, and he takes it away. Man created death, not God. As far as the Tsunamis and stuff like that, yes people die. But that's not the question at hand, we are not discussing should life be precious if apparently 10 people a year die by having vending machines fall on them. We are discussing is it ok to willingly halt the cells of a fertizlied egg from continuing on, in order to make a woman feel better about herself.

Also I've been on a binge lately with my conservatism because I am sick and tired of being silenced as racist, sexist, homophobic (by those who don't know I'm gay), poor-haterer, free speech squasher, all for believing differently. I'm being called a nutcase for believing in a way of life, but I cannot call anyone else a nutcase for what they believe, because I am the defacto nutcase.


**For the record, I do not support the Republican party in any way, I don't even think I'll be voting for Romney. Since he made $50 abortions in Massachusetts.
@oceanbreeze,

I understand what you're saying, while there are places and ways to put children for adoption no questions asked, I understand that is a very difficult thing to do and some might argue more painful than abortion. I am not insensitive to that aspect, as I've had a few friends who have given birth and were torn between giving it up for adoption, or keeping it, knowing their low income job can't support it. Thats why I am all for supporting women, I feel like the money that we spend federally funding planned parenthood centers should go to places for mothers who are poor but want their child to have a good life where they can receive support, care, advice, etc. It absolutely is a terrible situation, but that doesn't make abortion ok, and that's I guess the point I want to make. I'm not saying any of this is a good thing, but abortion isn't the answer. This also plays into other aspects of our culture, when we promote a promiscuous life style, men are more likely to take things such as that for granted.

A fetrilized egg left alone will die. Unless the mother feeds it and doesnt drink alcohol and take drugs to kill it off, or do back alley abortions which is what will happen if the pro lifers get their way. In that sense, no its not going to become a life. the Choice to make it a life is what makes it a life. Your sperm have the potential to become human beings, I see no difference between a sperm and fertilized egg. The only difference is real estate.

And I think its very much a question at hand. If your biblical code and belief in god is what is driving you to say these things then God should be held to a standard. Since GOD did inf act "invent" death... We have no choice in the matter of if we die or not. How can god get a pass when he kills trillions of humans over the course of history in fact.... EVERY SINGLE HUMAN was killed by god, be it a vending machine or a tumor or a battlefield. How about shit like Pompeii? An entire city flooded with molten lava, thanks god!

Have you even questioned where this so called "morality" even comes from? The bible is a joke... it was a political tool used by the Roman emperor to consolidate power between his crumbling empire. He even paid off the Early christian leaders to STFU and agree on his version of the bible... have you read up on the Council of Nicea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Also you shouldn't quote Jefferson... he hated Christianity. And instead was a deist.. the very quote you quoted was him talking shit about Christianity.

here it is in full.

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
Those are the words of a solid secularist as it pertains to government. He would NEVER have agreed that it is the government or religions job to stop women from having abortions, he was all about individual rights.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
 
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"in order to make her feel good about herself"

That's not what is going on. It's not about feeling good. Its about who has rights to their own bodies and their own morality.

I'm not arguing about the right to the body, but once a baby is in there the body is shared.

Puke. That is the most condescending misogynist thing you could have said in this thread.
It sounds like women are just breeders to you.

Jesus. You are gay! You are such a hypocrite. You should be out making babies according to your beliefs, instead, you are a homosexual who condemns women. It's hideously laughable! You are like the Jew in the ghetto who sold out his neighbors to the nazis so they could take him to the camp on the next shipment!

You aren't against birth control pills, but you are against abortion because it is "Playing God." I think you are confused.

Did it ever occur to you that other people do not believe in God and would appreciate the autonomy to make decisions for themselves without you and others like you butting in with your illogical ideologies?
Why should your religious beliefs even matter in this debate?



I feel like this is way over blown, would you like me to make a misogynistic comment and ask if you're on your period? Ok well I asked so I guess that makes me a misogynist.


Also none of the post makes sense. Because religion does not matter, I'm not arguing did God say abortion is wrong, I am arguing this: are multiplying and dividing cells life yes or no, if its life why is it ok to stop it without being murder; if it is not life, why is it not?



Yes, please make another comment about being a gay republican. Liberals* hate conservative gays, so I'm used to the hypocrisy of 'hey you're not allowed to hate anyone! unless you hate the same people we do!'

*Note, not every liberal hates conservative gays, but the vast majority of the ones I know do, because they, as Acd so eloquently phrased it are confused as to why I the jew am 'selling out' (nice racist implication) myself. YEAH WHY SHOULDN'T I THINK OF MYSELF? ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME. Are you implying that?

Ironically, just to settle the matter, voting conservatively is in my interests. For one, communists tend to not like gay people, based on history, and based on the communists today. Second, as I strive for small government, and not overreaching blanket rules like DOMA, I am actually being pro gay rights.





And lastly, I'm an ADHD bookworm who gets 5 hours of sleep a night. So don't ask if I've 'ever thought about something?' I've literally thought about everything. Including what it'd be like to be a martian setting a trap for the curiosity rover to get stuck in a mud patch.
 
I am arguing this: are multiplying and dividing cells life yes or no, if its life why is it ok to stop it without being murder; if it is not life, why is it not?
So we shouldnt be able to take flu shots and drink hot tea to kill off a virus in us? They do the same thing a fetus does. Grow and multiply, it is life afterall right?
 
Have you even questioned where this so called "morality" even comes from? The bible is a joke... it was a political tool used by the Roman emperor to consolidate power between his crumbling empire. He even paid off the Early christian leaders to STFU and agree on his version of the bible... have you read up on the Council of Nicea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

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There are entire manuscripts that never went through Rome, or Egypt. Not 100% true. Sorrrrry. Couldn't help it. :D
 
And lastly, I'm an ADHD bookworm who gets 5 hours of sleep a night. So don't ask if I've 'ever thought about something?' I've literally thought about everything. Including what it'd be like to be a martian setting a trap for the curiosity rover to get stuck in a mud patch.

lol
 
As a male survivor of sexual assault, I couldn't ever conceive forcing a women to carry to-term a baby created in such a degrading and invasive way. It makes me feel sick to the stomach. Every time anyone asks about such things makes the memories real again, and my experience wasn't even that traumatic in my mind. I couldn't imagine the absolute hell of not being able to abort a baby conceived by rape. It is the most degrading, dehumanizing, and humiliating experience anyone can live through. It's the most violent act one can live through. It alters and affects every single aspect of your life. You're doubted, judged, and interrogated by anyone who finds out it happened to you, and then to be force to be forced to live with it growing and feeding inside of you is sick.

Anyone who advocates for forcing these women to carry the child is irrefutably repulsive. They have absolutely no understanding of their pain, or the pain they continue to inflict on these women. Seriously, it's fucking sickening.
 
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There are entire manuscripts that never went through Rome, or Egypt. Not 100% true. Sorrrrry. Couldn't help it. :D
Cheeekkyyyy... well they all went through the Church of England to become the bible of the English speaking world, which was translated from greek, which was translated from some backwater Hebrew language! Have you ever taken a language class? Say Japanese, French, or Spanish? I took all 3, and you lose a TOOONNNNNNN in translation, not to mention the differences in culture. The king James bible is the biggest joke of all.
 
Cheeekkyyyy... well they all went through the Church of England to become the bible of the English speaking world, which was translated from greek, which was translated from some backwater Hebrew language! Have you ever taken a language class? Say Japanese, French, or Spanish? I took all 3, and you lose a TOOONNNNNNN in translation, not to mention the differences in culture. The king James bible is the biggest joke of all.

Oh, no I've never taken a language class! Tell me more about these "language classes" ;) Then, maybe next we can talk about things like driving a car and balancing a checkbook. ;)

Since Billy said its a joke, then it must be. Okay, I'm done. You guys can all go back to talking about abortions. Let me know what you guys decide.
 
I'm not arguing about the right to the body, but once a baby is in there the body is shared.





I feel like this is way over blown, would you like me to make a misogynistic comment and ask if you're on your period? Ok well I asked so I guess that makes me a misogynist.


Also none of the post makes sense. Because religion does not matter, I'm not arguing did God say abortion is wrong, I am arguing this: are multiplying and dividing cells life yes or no, if its life why is it ok to stop it without being murder; if it is not life, why is it not?



Yes, please make another comment about being a gay republican. Liberals* hate conservative gays, so I'm used to the hypocrisy of 'hey you're not allowed to hate anyone! unless you hate the same people we do!'

*Note, not every liberal hates conservative gays, but the vast majority of the ones I know do, because they, as Acd so eloquently phrased it are confused as to why I the jew am 'selling out' (nice racist implication) myself. YEAH WHY SHOULDN'T I THINK OF MYSELF? ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME. Are you implying that?

Ironically, just to settle the matter, voting conservatively is in my interests. For one, communists tend to not like gay people, based on history, and based on the communists today. Second, as I strive for small government, and not overreaching blanket rules like DOMA, I am actually being pro gay rights.





And lastly, I'm an ADHD bookworm who gets 5 hours of sleep a night. So don't ask if I've 'ever thought about something?' I've literally thought about everything. Including what it'd be like to be a martian setting a trap for the curiosity rover to get stuck in a mud patch.

Your previous post was rife with theological justification or reasoning. Which is how you can justify calling it murder. Not everyone shares that belief. Murder means you are killing a person. Non-viable clusters of cells aren't persons.
I don't hate you. But your view is frustrating. You are entitled to believe what you want. And I don't give a shit if you dislike communists and vote republican because of that.
What I do care about, is the fact that those of your ideology are working very hard to ensure that women like myself lose the autonomy to make reproductive choices for our own bodies.
I'm also frustrated that people such as yourself will go to great lengths to declare that they have the best interests of women at heart.
What is very frustrating about that--is that you are not a woman, and you pretend to know what is best for women.
And what's even more frustrating is this idea that you can pretend to know what's best for women by proselytizing that carrying a potential person negates a woman's established rights as an actual person.

It's also frustrating that as a person who is gay, you adhere so staunchly to such oppressive and patriarchal ideology.
And it seems hypocritical:
So I'm just wondering, is it more of an abomination in God's eyes to be a homosexual, or to have an abortion? Does the bible say which is worse?
 
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Oh, no I've never taken a language class! Tell me more about these "language classes" ;) Then, maybe next we can talk about things like driving a car and balancing a checkbook. ;)

Since Billy said its a joke, then it must be. Okay, I'm done. You guys can all go back to talking about abortions. Let me know what you guys decide.

So then you agree that much is lost in translation yes? So, of a book with such a horribly checkered past, how can one put faith in it? How can one honestly believe anything it says when there is so much physical evidence of its creation and intent? How can someone believe it is legitimately the word of god?