INFJ and Autism

as an unrelated or possibly loosely related issue, different people have previously spontaneously told me that they think i might be high functioning autistic, but i'm totally not.

I'm not sure what type Temple Grandine could be, but she is definitely someone who has a high functioning autism and has show feeling preferences, imo.

Wyote said:

Personally, I think INFJs are more similar to those with Williams Syndrome.

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WTF? That's awful.

• Delayed speech that may later turn into strong speaking ability and strong learning by hearing
• Developmental delay
• Easily distracted, attention deficit disorder (ADD)
• Feeding problems including colic, reflux, and vomiting
• Inward bend of the small finger (clinodactyly)
• Learning disorders
• Mild to moderate mental retardation
• Personality traits including being very friendly, trusting strangers, fearing loud sounds or physical contact, and being interested in music
• Short compared to the rest of the person's family
• Sunken chest (pectus excavatum)
• Unusual appearance of the face
  
  • Flattened nasal bridge with small upturned nose
  • Long ridges in the skin that run from the nose to the upper lip (philtrum)
  • Prominent lips with an open mouth
  • Skin that covers the inner corner of the eye (epicanthal folds)
  • Partially missing teeth, defective tooth enamel, or small, widely spaced teeth

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Autism is a disorder of empathy development. People who are autistic have an aberration of the brain that messes with their socialisation instinct. They are unable to empathise and mix with others (depending on the severity of the autism). High-functioning autistic people learn how to socialise in a patterned way (if their brain is not too damaged this is very possible). They learn by observation of other people that when a joke is told they should laugh, when others smile they should too. Etc. There is a misconception that autistic people don't feel. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't, their disorder is not one of emotional development, it is of empathy, which is very different. As such, a high-functioning autistic could test as an INFJ or ISFJ because they learn rules such as politeness = importance. But the part of development they are lacking in is the ability to understand others, feel as they do, understand how they must feel - anything to do with empathy. As such, they may not use Fi as such (my values) because they do need to be taught social rules. But they also do not use Fe (the rules) because their motive to use it is entirely conscious. They think about it and do it because they know the answer. So it may test like Fe but really it's just that someone has taught them socially acceptable rules that Fe bases itself on. Because these are cognitive processes and autistic people's brains and minds work in a very different way, they kind of use cognitive function x - it's a different cognitive function to the rest of us.

INFJs may well take on an autistic-like appearance if they're unable to communicate to others properly, but I doubt it would be an in built kind of disorder. I'm probably wrong.

TheFoolishOwl said:

Some theories about autism seem to consider that it could also be linked with a strong empathy rather than no empathy but this empathy would be mostly unseen because of the social impairment (lack of understand of the conventions).

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Ah, I see. I'm getting Fe and empathy confused now Too much MBTI! You make a good point.

I have two sons with autism. My younger boy, age 10, has mild autism. He reads and speaks with no difficulty. His issues are mainly social and behavioral.
My older boy, age 11, does not speak. He uses sign language and a PECS, or Picture Exchange Communication System. Diagnosis was given at the age of 20 months. He is very affectionate, not at all cold and detached.
He was also born with pulmonary stenosis, In laymen's terms, it means that the valve between his heart's right ventricle (bottom right chamber) and pulmonary artery (blood vessel leading to lungs) was constricted. His heart had to work extra hard to circulate blood. This made him tire out easily during feeding, and he was a bit dusky in appearance. I tried nursing, but he was too weak, and the only way to ensure he would thrive was to bottle feed him. He had a balloon angioplasty at Tufts-New England Medical Center in Boston to open the valve at 7 weeks of age. That made all the difference. He is an active child with no evidence or residual effects whatsoever of his prior cardiac defect. Kudos to modern medicine!

I'm an INFJ with Asperger's Syndrome and I suspect Thomas Jefferson and Ludwig Wittgenstein were INFJ Aspies.

Fe is about social norms and rules, not the "empathic" nonverbal communication those of us on the autism spectrum have trouble with. In fact, FJ autistics, I would guess, would tend to become strongly and obsessively observant of social norms and rules and standards of behavior. Or they would have a naively optimistic view of human nature, assuming that just because he or she holds to norms of "good behavior" then all people have those norms within them and are inherently good.

Siamese cat said:

I'm not sure what type Temple Grandine could be, but she is definitely someone who has a high functioning autism and has show feeling preferences, imo.

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Feeling? I think she is an ISTJ. I've read a couple of her books and she definitely seems Si dominant, IMO.

You know, honestly, since I've started my internship working with kids on the spectrum, I've had to question this myself.

I typically have no problem with empathy. I relate well to others in that regard (human and animal), and indeed one of the reasons I opted for this field is because growing up I was always THE person my friends came to with problems - from your typical teenager relationship issues, to "my stepdad has sexually abused me", to "so-and-so on our track team tried to rape me".

But my more general social skills SUCK. I was always the kid in the back of the class, reading a book, speaking only when spoken to. Virtually every single friend I've made since I was 5, was me sitting around looking awkward, and someone else deciding to come up and start talking to me. I came out of my shell quite a bit in college and thereafter, but the friends I made still were initially the ones to actually start talking to me, rather than vice versa. I seem to have retreated a little back into my shell since undergrad - life circumstances that happened right after college took a blow to my self-esteem (and it took me most of my college years to build any self-esteem, as growing up it was virtually nonexistent), plus being a single adult who isn't into partying, or clubs, or bars, have somewhat shortened my regular social circle. So when I first started working with the ASD kids, it amazed me how much I seemed to have in common with them, and how much it felt like, while I was helping to teach them the various social skills, I was teaching myself as well. So while I don't feel like I'm on the spectrum (I feel, at this point, that a lot of my social skills problems are/were situationally/environmentally based - bullied at school, "difficult" home life, etc.), I definitely see some things I seem to have in common with many that are.

FindingMyself said:

You know, honestly, since I've started my internship working with kids on the spectrum, I've had to question this myself.

I typically have no problem with empathy. I relate well to others in that regard (human and animal), and indeed one of the reasons I opted for this field is because growing up I was always THE person my friends came to with problems - from your typical teenager relationship issues, to "my stepdad has sexually abused me", to "so-and-so on our track team tried to rape me".

But my more general social skills SUCK. I was always the kid in the back of the class, reading a book, speaking only when spoken to. Virtually every single friend I've made since I was 5, was me sitting around looking awkward, and someone else deciding to come up and start talking to me. I came out of my shell quite a bit in college and thereafter, but the friends I made still were initially the ones to actually start talking to me, rather than vice versa. I seem to have retreated a little back into my shell since undergrad - life circumstances that happened right after college took a blow to my self-esteem (and it took me most of my college years to build any self-esteem, as growing up it was virtually nonexistent), plus being a single adult who isn't into partying, or clubs, or bars, have somewhat shortened my regular social circle. So when I first started working with the ASD kids, it amazed me how much I seemed to have in common with them, and how much it felt like, while I was helping to teach them the various social skills, I was teaching myself as well. So while I don't feel like I'm on the spectrum (I feel, at this point, that a lot of my social skills problems are/were situationally/environmentally based - bullied at school, "difficult" home life, etc.), I definitely see some things I seem to have in common with many that are.

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Wow, we must have been separated at birth or something, because I'm the same way!

TaylorS said:

Wow, we must have been separated at birth or something, because I'm the same way!

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Frustrating, isn't it?

Temple would most likely be either an INTP or ISTP.

I have Aspergers syndrome, although not to the point as Temple does, she's an extreme case. [MENTION=2675]NiennaLadyOfTears[/MENTION] is an INFJ with aspergers syndrome, she pops on the forums occasionally, though now that I've mentioned her she might be inclined to speak about it.

TaylorS said:

I'm an INFJ with Asperger's Syndrome and I suspect Thomas Jefferson and Ludwig Wittgenstein were INFJ Aspies.

Fe is about social norms and rules, not the "empathic" nonverbal communication those of us on the autism spectrum have trouble with. In fact, FJ autistics, I would guess, would tend to become strongly and obsessively observant of social norms and rules and standards of behavior. Or they would have a naively optimistic view of human nature, assuming that just because he or she holds to norms of "good behavior" then all people have those norms within them and are inherently good.

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This. I tend to be very much a stickler for the social norms and morality. I tend to believe the best in people no matter what, to the point where I can't really understand how anyone can't hold to the same standards of behavior.

However I can also be very empathetic, but not know how to approach someone to help. I hate it. Or, I see that someone is having trouble but I don't have a relationship with them so I don't feel I can step in and help. Making friends is very difficult for me but I truly value the relationships I have and would do anything for my friends (I have two, not counting my husband, all male.) One of my good friends is several states away and I know when he's not doing well without having read or heard that he isn't, but when I check in with him I discover he wasn't doing well.

But mostly I am empathetic with animals. I understand them much better than human relationships.

By the way I have typed on the official MBTI as INFJ several times; admittedly however the preference for N is somewhat weak. But the F is fairly strong.


Not all autistics or Aspies are thinking oriented; part of it has to do with any other learning disabilities they might have. Myself, I feel stuck as I'm neither logical nor artistically inclined. I prefer art to logic but have an innate inability for both.