Original Sin--Born with the sin nature...

Deleted member 16771 said:

Do you not see the contradiction here, Just? I don't think anyone said they 'hate God'. Pointing out the contradictions in an ancient text is not the same as antitheism.

Personally I'm troubled by those who resort to effectively condemning others to eternal damnation for the sake of proving how right they are. I can think of no greater act of vindictiveness.

Come on chaps, it's probably wise just to leave this conversation for a while. I came here looking for interesting perspectives on 'original sin'; you're doing the rest of us a disservice.

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I would like to get back to the original topic.
That would be fantastic!

But I also wish I could post my viewpoint without others telling me how I hate God.
He fully means it to be cruel.

Skarekrow said:

I would like to get back to the original topic.
That would be fantastic!

But I also wish I could post my viewpoint without others telling me how I hate God.
He fully means it to be cruel.

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Yes you have a right of reply to a public accusation.

And here I was worried it was just me noticing this.

Haha I made a pun.

sprinkles said:

And here I was worried it was just me noticing this.

Haha I made a pun.

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It wasn't just you, but you noticed it long before everyone else... for you are the venerable seer, nostrasprinkles!

Btw, it's interesting that you thought you were infj but aren't sure anymore. I definitely think just me is some kind of Fi-dom.

It could be just me and my interpretations, though.

sprinkles said:

And here I was worried it was just me noticing this.

Haha I made a pun.

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Ren said:

It wasn't just you, but you noticed it long before everyone else... for you are the venerable seer, nostrasprinkles!

Btw, it's interesting that you thought you were infj but aren't sure anymore. I definitely think just me is some kind of Fi-dom.

It could be just me and my interpretations, though.

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Back on topic...
This spells it out quite clearly that the concept shouldn’t exist within the Christian doctrine.

Skarekrow said:

No!
I hate God!
I want to be evil, and do just evil stuff!
Every nice thing I have ever done has be disingenuous and for my own benefit!
I really want to spit in God’s face even if it means I will burn and be tortured for all of eternity!
(Now doesn’t that sound logical?)

His whole take on it is that God is basically forcing people to love him back or else...they BURN!
I’m sorry but that makes zero sense...why bother with us at all then?
And it actually does say over and over again that the “whole world” will be saved....not just a few busloads of people.
Jesus was sent to save the “whole world” to imply anyone is going to “Hell" is implying that Jesus failed his mission.

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Once again, I did not direct that at you.

just me said:

Once again, I did not direct that at you.

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It’s called sarcasm.
(It was used to make a point - usually opposite of what is being said, but not exclusively)
Derp dude...you totally got me.
Let it go now.
(You should maybe reread the second section there you ignored)
*big fucking eye roll*


And it is directed at me....who else is it directed at (who are you talking about?)?

Please don’t talk to me, you’re far too impossible and hateful and a poor representative of Jesus.


EDIT - FYI it was your best pal EventHorizon who hated God (and wanted to kill him) not me.
lolololol

I would really like to not have to spend time and posts defending myself from personal attacks based on made up BS in a thread about another topic entirely or things purposefully taken out of context.

I would be happy to speak to and discuss this topic with anyone else who can keep things cordial....and normal...like how normal people talk.

Mostly though...on topic would be a good start.

Mods?

Normalcy? Original sin nature is normalcy to me. If it is not to you, that's your right to think that way. Stop answering my posts.

Skarekrow said:

Please don’t talk to me, you’re far too impossible and hateful and a poor representative of Jesus.

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Skarekrow said:

Please don’t talk to me, you’re far too impossible and hateful and a poor representative of Jesus.

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just me said:

Normalcy? Original sin nature is normalcy to me. If it is not to you, that's your right to think that way. Stop answering my posts.

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Trumpet Sounds

Ok @just me and @Skarekrow

This is god's deputy Kayne West. God is away on a couple's retreat (he and Mrs God are trying to work out some issues).

I think it best to let things go for a while, and move onto other subjects.

Also Jimmy Kimmel cut me short. I was about to quote Chaucer, but I never got the chance.

Don't tell God I said that. He hates Chaucer.

James said:

Trumpet Sounds

Ok @just me and @Skarekrow

This is god's deputy Kayne West. God is away on a couple's retreat (he and Mrs God are trying to work out some issues).

I think it best to let things go for a while, and move onto other subjects.

Also Jimmy Kimmel cut me short. I was about to quote Chaucer, but I never got the chance.

Don't tell God I said that. He hates Chaucer.

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Gracias James!

Sooooooo... Does that mean we can't post here anymore?

Emanuel Goldstein said:

Sooooooo... Does that mean we can't post here anymore?

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No, anyone can post here.

Lady Jolanda said:

Indeed. We would have locked the thread if we wanted to disallow posting. We merely ask the discussion here will be civil and for everyone to refrain from attacking people's characters.

People with interesting differing viewpoints on spirituality have been having respectful discussions for years here. Let's get back to that shall we?

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I agree, and I apologize if I have taken up anyone’s posting space with semantical arguments or my own stance on the idea - which has seemed to upset more than one person on this thread who disagree with it - I am not sorry for my stance, only that it is potentially upsetting for some and I had to take up space attempting to defend myself.
I will not pussyfoot on eggshells to not offend someone when my viewpoint is just as valid as their own, nor do I expect that from them with me.
In actuality I really enjoy such discussions with people who are willing to discuss and leave all options on the table and have an open mind/heart.
With a subject such as this - one that cannot be proven thus far - it makes no sense to make statements of finality or “facts”.
There are no facts when speaking in theory - because I happen to question things does not make me hate God.
In fact...I have a stronger belief in such things than I ever have had.
What I cannot agree with is blind faith and never questioning what I am told is “truth” by man.
We were given minds to question and doubt - it is in our genetics and spirit to want to explore and know those things obscured from us.
I will return to my own thread and leave everyone here to discuss without challenging anyone posting lies and mistruths (personal or otherwise I will not correct it...you can just look silly).
I appreciate the Mods stepping in and putting an end to it.
Cheers and ciao!

just me said:

Original sin nature is normalcy to me.

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Does it follow that in your view, anybody that dies unbaptized is condemned to eternal damnation in Hell?

Does that include unbaptized infants? All this should be inferred from your position.

People, in general, form millions of souls. Jesus forgave a man on the cross because he asked.....and he believed. He was not baptized, but he repented. Of course, he could not be baptized from where he was.

My stance on the Bible is it tells many stories that greatly influenced my life. The Bible should be taken as a whole, not picked apart. I studied Greek interlinear texts 3 years with Lexicons and a Concordance before computers. Why, you might ask? I wanted to prove the words in some scriptures because translating is difficult at times. I studied enough to prove it correct in my soul. I met someone. The more one gives of oneself and studies, seeking the answers in the Bible and original texts if necessary, the more that will be revealed to that person. If you try to understand the Bible as a whole, the answers to your questions are in there. If you cannot find them, ask someone locally that can help. Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knock, and the door shall be opened unto you.

just me said:

People, in general, form millions of souls. Jesus forgave a man on the cross because he asked.....and he believed. He was not baptized, but he repented. Of course, he could not be baptized from where he was.

My stance on the Bible is it tells many stories that greatly influenced my life. The Bible should be taken as a whole, not picked apart. I studied Greek interlinear texts 3 years with Lexicons and a Concordance before computers. Why, you might ask? I wanted to prove the words in some scriptures because translating is difficult at times. I studied enough to prove it correct in my soul. I met someone. The more one gives of oneself and studies, seeking the answers in the Bible and original texts if necessary, the more that will be revealed to that person. If you try to understand the Bible as a whole, the answers to your questions are in there. If you cannot find them, ask someone locally that can help. Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knock, and the door shall be opened unto you.

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I'm not sure you answered the question there, just.

Could I put it another way? Do you see it as an issue of doctrinal importance that Christians believe baptism to be the only way into heaven ('only through me...', &c.)?

In other words, if someone did not believe this, could they still be a Christian?

I think this has become more relevant since Pope Francis' remarks on the matter of unbaptised people getting into heaven - suppose what would happen if he - with papal infallibility and apostolic authority - issued an encyclical confirming this as the doctrinally correct position.