[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Last Jedi
- Thread starter Wyote
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I think this is where a lot of the disdain for these characters comes from. We are so used to going to movies where the dude is the dude and the lady is the lady. They are both more complex and have traits of both but Ben deep down just wants to be rescued like the princess he is and Rey deep down just wants to find a mate to create a home for herself, oh and kick some ass and conquer the universe.
I now know with whom I will theorize SW plots. I thank thee
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I know all of the things o.o >.<
Because I like to be out there.... this is my last theory around these two... I do feel that a lot of emphasis was placed in very small scenes/moments around the inner conflict Kylo has.... either that was to throw everyone off or there’s more to it in future.....and I do think Rey’s aggression and curiosity could very easily be swung into the favor of the dark side.... she just needs one major setback or betrayal on the good side.... I feel that the line between who’s good and who’s evil is not truly as clear as this movie wants us to believe.... but maybe I’m just seeing that because I’m crushing on Kylo and I really want him to not die eventually especially not as a bad guy.... sigh I’m so emotional over this
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I'm still pretty sold on the idea that Rey is the granddaughter of either Palpatine or Plagueis/Snoke.
What do you mean shitty CGI? I thought it was the best I've ever seen?
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The Leia scene specifically. The rest of the film yea I totally agree, best stuff, really outstanding. But that scene was extremely important emotionally and it didn't quite make it for me because it felt a bit uncanny valley ish. I think it was mostly the way the scene was constructed, as I said, but I need to watch it again to really determine if the special effects are in some way at fault. That was just my initial thought about it after seeing it once.
I’ve seen the theory around Palpatine and honestly the angle is making sense to me. I don’t know too much about Plagueis or Snoke (are they the same?), I’m not a die hard fan but the plots do tend to tantalize my curiosity to delve deeper..
Is this the one where she gets back on the space ship thingy.... guys, please, don’t kill me for saying space ship thingy
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Some people think Snoke is Darth Plagueis the Wise, who was Palpatine's mentor and is mentioned in the prequels. The same music plays during Snoke's scenes that played when Palpatine spoke of Plagueis. So there is some sort of connection in all likelihood, but we don't know what it is.
Specifically the part where she comes back to life and supermans across space. I don't have any sort of problem with this happening like some people have taken issuance with, but the angle of shots of her and timing and just overall how it looked was a little awkward to me personally. I think that's mostly what people are picking up on, and then just spewing a lot of unjust hate. It was just maybe a slight misstep on Rian Johnson's (director) part imho.
Yeah see the fact that I knew it was that scene says a lot, I also thought something about it was off and it stands out for me as a puzzle piece that doesn’t fit, as you’ve mentioned the way it was done just doesn’t gel very well... I’m with you on that one, what they did just before that scene was pretty brilliant but you’re right, what followed didn’t deliver much impact.
Snoke freaks me out, he’s a bad guy that I’m definirely not crushing on
I went to see it on opening night with my ISTJ friend / Star Wars buddy. I had mixed feelings afterward and still do. While I was pleased with the overall direction of the story, loved the design and visuals, and didn't mind most of the trope bending and "fuck you's" to the fanbase, there were some decisions that I did find puzzling or frustrating. It wasn't a bad movie or bad Star Wars, but I still rank it below the OT in terms of overall enjoyment. For the record, Rogue One remains my favorite of the Disney-produced films thus far in terms of plot cohesion, interesting cast of characters and "Star Wars" feel.
I'll put all of this behind tags in case someone ignores the thread title and wanders in.
I'll put all of this behind tags in case someone ignores the thread title and wanders in.
The good
Snoke (with a slow developing smirk): "Did you ever hear the tragedy...of Darth Plagueis, the Wise."
- I very much appreciated the humor. In fact, I'd say this was easily the funniest SW movie to date. It all worked for me. I even loved the Porgs, which I wasn't expecting at all. They were used in exactly the right dose and context. Even some of the heaviest moments in the film (like the battle at Crait) benefited from some spot-on comedic intervention. I figured Kylo Ren's temper tantrums would get eventually get old, but nope, they're still hilarious. Snoke telling him where to stuff that stupid mask (and his nerdrage response in the elevator) were epic.
- I thought all the performances were very good. Carrie Fisher was great in her final performance (a big improvement over TFA) and I adored Laura Dern as Adm. Holdo. I'm a big fan of Rey and Kylo Ren as the "lead" characters and now they are set up well for whatever final showdown IX will bring. Although Kylo taking down Snoke was a highlight of the film for me, I would have loved to known more about his backstory. As a shameless fanboy I would have legit shat myself if this exchange had taken place:
Snoke (with a slow developing smirk): "Did you ever hear the tragedy...of Darth Plagueis, the Wise."
- Although a great many nerds are crying foul over the "science" of the scene, Holdo's hyperspace ram maneuver was bad ass as hell and easily my favorite moment of the movie. The bombing sequence at the beginning (along with Poe's X-Wing wizardry) was fantastic as well. And Luke faking out Kylo at the battle on Crait - fantastic all around.
- I am okay with Luke becoming one with the force. His sacrifice basically saved the Resistance and he elicited another of those delicious Kylo Ren tantrums in the process. Plus, you know good and well that we haven't seen the actual end of him - notably his "see ya around, kid" to KR just before vanishing tells me that Force ghost-Luke is but one movie away.
- Speaking of Luke, I loved his grumpy, disheveled, dgaf persona for most of this film. It stands to reason he would be cynical as hell given all he's been through (and given the fact that he was never the "purest" Jedi to begin with).
- I've come around on Leia's force flight. It was a bit jarring to see at first, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. And yeah, it was a nice moment in context.
- While Finn and Rose's excursion to Canto Bight served an important purpose thematically (i.e. that heroes don't always win and that there's plenty to be learned from failure) it ground the middle third of the movie to a screeching halt. I didn't mind too much the character of Rose, and the sidequest itself was mildly entertaining in spots, but it took away from the story we were all wanting to see. Also...why couldn't they have just made this happen on Nar Shaddaa? C'mon Disney, at least throw the EU fans some easy scraps when you can.
- Rey's parentage - okay, I'm not bothered that Rey is in essence a "galactic nobody." The history of powerful force users bears out that the gift isn't something bestowed only upon certain bloodlines, and plot-wise it allows for a lot more freedom. The problem I have is that TFA devoted a good bit of resources (including the entire scene beneath Maz's cantina) toward the mystery of Rey's parents. That scene in particular strongly hinted that Rey was not just any random woman but in fact somehow connected to the Skywalker lineage. Then in TLJ - *poof* two years of teasing and speculation goes for naught. It just feels like a waste and a misdirection, and I don't love it.
- This movie requires the watcher to turn their brains off. Like, a lot. Moreso in my opinion than the typical SW film. They've all had plot holes and contrivances...but come on, that slow-speed cruiser chase that lasted for half the movie? Finn flying a rickety speeder headlong into the beam of a giant laser cannon that melts down a huge blast door, and surviving? Very hard for me to believe. Plenty of other, smaller ones too. I feel like a rewatch will further expose a lot of these rather than make me more comfortable with them.
- Dammit to hell, Captain Phasma had better not be dead. Maybe their intention all along was to make her Boba Fett 2.0 (cool-looking faceless character who doesn't actually do anything) but if so, what a wasted opportunity for an awesome badass female villain, something the entirety of Star Wars lore has seen very little of. Besides that, Gwen Christie as a very talented actress and physical peformer deserves better.
- A personal beef - filmmakers, can we please stick to Easter eggs (which are fun and can be used to provide meaningful context) and drop the damned direct callbacks (which are lazy and frequently pointless)? For a film being hyped as so "original" there were far too many sequences taken almost directly from the OT. I mean most of the battle on Crait essentially was the Battle of Hoth. Chewie leading TIE fighters on a mad chase through tight confines, even turning the Falcon sideways to squeeze through a narrow opening as the ships explode behind them...hmm, oddly familiar. And then Kylo and Rey riding up the elevator to see Snoke...where have I seen that one before? Dunno, maybe in the last SW movie to include a Big Bad Guy sitting on a throne surrounded by staff-wielding guards wearing red outfits. I'm aware the OT itself was full of callbacks and straight up copycats of other movies; the important distinction being those were other, unrelated movies. Not earlier movies from the same franchise. I don't know, maybe most people like that kind of thing. I find it to be boring and a detraction from an otherwise "fresh" experience.
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Lol I was literally typing my response when you posted this.
I still want it to be true!!
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Lol I was literally typing my response when you posted this.
"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved..."
Now, prior to reading my review of the film, please do keep in mind that I am easily amused and my standards for films are no where near a critic’s standards. That being stated, let me continue with my thoughts for this film.
I definitely think that this film is getting flack due to the nature of the characters. Nearly the entire cast of old characters has now cycled through, leaving us with a new set of characters that have not had a chance to yet develop. People are jumping to criticize these new characters, claiming that they are underdeveloped, but what they do not consider is that these characters are still developing. This is only their second film now, and there has been much development in both Rey and Ben since the beginning of the first film. The Star Wars fans are used to seeing characters that have already been developed due to the release of the films. Episode IV features a cast of fully developed characters because these characters are introduced in the middle of their stories. Rey and Ben do not have this advantage.
I also believe Rey must be a child of SOMEONE of importance, though I do not believe she is kin to Leia and Han. I also personally enjoyed that they built on Rey and Ben’s relationship throughout TLJ. I know many people who were upset because they believed Finn and Rey should be together or were disgusted because they still believe Rey will be related to Ben. The Finn and Rey relationship does not strike me as a romantic one. Let me explain why:
Finn and Rey both grew up believing that they were nothing, coming from nothing, meaning nothing to anyone, with no family. Finn and Rey were each other’s first family, the first people to believe in each other besides themselves. This is why I believe that Rey and Finn have more of a close friend/loving family member vibe.
However, I enjoyed Rose’s character. Perhaps it is because I tend to root for the sensitive underdogs in films, and Rose struck me as such. She is a strong character, so do not take sensitive in the wrong way, but she cared so deeply for her late sister that she clearly was in tune with her emotions. Someone recently said that her character could have been replaced with a robot and the film would have stayed the same, but I think Rose’s character brought an aspect of hope into the film that was very needed.
The Leia scene was just poorly done. It was terrible. Although a lot of people were confused when watching it because they were unaware that Leia had the force (because they clearly pay no attention?).
And my last, main point. Darth Jar-Jar shall prevail.
I definitely think that this film is getting flack due to the nature of the characters. Nearly the entire cast of old characters has now cycled through, leaving us with a new set of characters that have not had a chance to yet develop. People are jumping to criticize these new characters, claiming that they are underdeveloped, but what they do not consider is that these characters are still developing. This is only their second film now, and there has been much development in both Rey and Ben since the beginning of the first film. The Star Wars fans are used to seeing characters that have already been developed due to the release of the films. Episode IV features a cast of fully developed characters because these characters are introduced in the middle of their stories. Rey and Ben do not have this advantage.
I also believe Rey must be a child of SOMEONE of importance, though I do not believe she is kin to Leia and Han. I also personally enjoyed that they built on Rey and Ben’s relationship throughout TLJ. I know many people who were upset because they believed Finn and Rey should be together or were disgusted because they still believe Rey will be related to Ben. The Finn and Rey relationship does not strike me as a romantic one. Let me explain why:
Finn and Rey both grew up believing that they were nothing, coming from nothing, meaning nothing to anyone, with no family. Finn and Rey were each other’s first family, the first people to believe in each other besides themselves. This is why I believe that Rey and Finn have more of a close friend/loving family member vibe.
However, I enjoyed Rose’s character. Perhaps it is because I tend to root for the sensitive underdogs in films, and Rose struck me as such. She is a strong character, so do not take sensitive in the wrong way, but she cared so deeply for her late sister that she clearly was in tune with her emotions. Someone recently said that her character could have been replaced with a robot and the film would have stayed the same, but I think Rose’s character brought an aspect of hope into the film that was very needed.
The Leia scene was just poorly done. It was terrible. Although a lot of people were confused when watching it because they were unaware that Leia had the force (because they clearly pay no attention?).
And my last, main point. Darth Jar-Jar shall prevail.
Oh, and I agree that the conflict between light and dark throughout this film is nice. Though maybe slightly overdone.
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- Sep 28, 2008
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I think the biggest problem with Rose is that the audience doesn't really know how she fits in. We are comfortable with our core group from TFA. She was dropped into the story and didn't get enough screen time/dialog for people to fully connect with her emotionally. And it seems weird to give her an even bigger role in the next one in an already fairly large cast. As I said before, I like her, but her introduction was not strong enough -I think- unless they are just going to kill her off or have her join the government and never be seen again like Jar Jar.
You know...it could still happen. I mean if he's cheated death once he could do it again (and again). And imagine the hissyfit KR would throw if he showed back up...
I think Rose was there to give us something we haven't quite seen in a SW movie to this point, that being a character firmly entrenched in the main narrative who's just a regular person and not a "hero" of any kind. The connection with her sister sacrificing herself on the bombing run made it stronger, as it provided an intimate look into what these "heroic" plans and decisions mean to the little people following the orders.
In short, it was another trope subversion by Rian Johnson. Some of those worked better than others, IMO.
ETA: Should add that Rogue One included a bunch of "regular people" playing big roles. Edit to say that this hasn't been seen in a main sequence SW movie up until now...
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