Show me an ENTP

[Lurker]

deathjam = good ENTP
many others = bad ENTP

Good or bad? You show your subjective bias. People aren't good or bad, they're different versions of health and compatibility.

ENTP is a cognitive preference which implies a potential for NPD. Scratching the surface of overly avid ENTPs like yourself reveals the tendancy of 'my type is flawless because I said so' and it is narcissistic by definition.

Don't know what you're scratching but it's not my surface, the op very specifically stated they hated ENTPs and wanted to know how they could change that, I did not intend to show anything but what they could see as forgivable. I'm well aware that the % of those with NDP who type as ENTP is higher than other types and I sure as fuck don't see myself or my type as flawless, but I am not NPD and it's a disorder that I cannot handle in others, and yet I can manage being around the average ENTP because they are not one and the same.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Good or bad? You show your subjective bias.

This ad hominem mental masturbation just proves you unable to accept that others have opinions and thus shows an inbuilt narcissistic tendency.

You are neither coherent nor calm by both decrying anyone having an opinion on the topic which you find unfavourable to you whilst also admitting they are right...

I really don't know why you bother to protest about what you agree is the case and what you display openly.

The thread is titled 'Show me an ENTP', now we should change the title to include 'ENTP Inside!'

 

[InvisibleJim]

You are neither coherent nor calm by both decrying anyone having an opinion on the topic which you find unfavourable to you whilst also admitting they are right...

I really don't know why you bother to protest about what you agree is the case and what you display openly.'

Actually @Lerxst to assist you on your quest I had not entirely thought through the above statement.

The logical fallacy above is where the ENTP attempts to cherry pick the data to provide an outcome distinctly in favour of their opinion of themselves by restricting the peer group allowed to have 'valid/participatory viewpoints' anything else is a 'personal problem that the group doesn't agree with'. It's a good example of exactly what you want to avoid and one of the linchpins of the recent financial collapse because data relevant to any analysis or decision making is squewed subjectively.

It's subtle; due to sensitive Fe the ENTP presents an argument to moderation, demanding others restrain their remarks opposing to their position because they 'cannot be true/anecdotal/personal problem/subjective', this provides implicit support in favour of their viewpoint by making it all of the opposite identifiers. This is a fallacy where the goal posts are subtly moved along the pitch when regarding viewpoints.

INFJs do have a tolerance to this; a PoLR of Te means they don't refer back to the environment as much as would be desirable and therefore don't see the interrupts and cherry picking taking place.

As the above lady, @CindyLou said, it took a while but she seen it and she was amazed it went on for so long.

i.e. your annoyance at some ENTPs is entirely appropriate and proportionate regarding this issue.

In effect, the answer/ego drives the analysis, not vice versa as would be sensible to others.

 

[Matt3737]

The following precepts are generally used in the ethical administration of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator:

Type not trait
The MBTI sorts for type; it does not indicate the strength of ability. The questionnaire allows the clarity of a preference to be ascertained (Bill clearly prefers introversion), but not the strength of preference (Jane strongly prefers extraversion) or degree of aptitude (Harry is good at thinking). In this sense, it differs from trait-based tools such as 16PF. Type preferences are polar opposites: a precept of MBTI is that people fundamentally prefer one thing over the other, not a bit of both.
Own best judge
Individuals are considered the best judge of their own type. While the MBTI questionnaire provides a Reported Type, this is considered only an indication of their probable overall Type. A Best Fit Process is usually used to allow respondents to develop their understanding of the four dichotomies, to form their own hypothesis as to their overall Type, and to compare this against the Reported Type. In more than 20% of cases, the hypothesis and the Reported Type differ in one or more dichotomies. Using the clarity of each preference, any potential for bias in the report, and often, a comparison of two or more whole Types may then help respondents determine their own Best Fit.
No right or wrong
No preference or total type is considered better or worse than another. They are all Gifts Differing, as emphasized by the title of Isabel Briggs Myers' book on this subject.
Voluntary
It is considered unethical to compel anyone to take the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. It should always be taken voluntarily.
Confidentiality
The result of the MBTI Reported and Best Fit type are confidential between the individual and administrator and, ethically, not for disclosure without permission.
Not for selection
The results of the assessment should not be used to "label, evaluate, or limit the respondent in any way" (emphasis original). Since all types are valuable, and the MBTI measures preferences rather than aptitude, the MBTI is not considered a proper instrument for purposes of employment selection. Many professions contain highly competent individuals of different types with complementary preferences.
Importance of proper feedback
Individuals should always be given detailed feedback from a trained administrator and an opportunity to undertake a Best Fit exercise to check against their Reported Type. This feedback can be given in person or, where this is not practical, by telephone or electronically.

Wrong; not necessarily incorrect, but wrong.

 

[Quiet]

I love the ENTPs I know. I have three great ENTP friends, one being the father of my child. I do know one extremely unhealthy ENTP as well, who is an alcoholic, drug addict and probably does have NPD.

I had an instant rapport with all the ENTPs that Im close to. Once we started talking we literally couldn't stop. I definately felt that there was some kind of chemistry or kinship with this type. The Ne Ti Fe Si combo is very cool. Generally the people I get along with the best tend to be TPs, with high Ti usage.

All my ENTP friends share certain strengths and weaknesses but for the purpose of this discussion I'll mainly talk about the one that Im closest to, the father of my child.

Strengths
Open minded and free thinking- he does not disregard any information and will entertain a thought just for the sake of it. We can talk about any topic at length.
Extremely creative and inventive- he just cant help himself, he literally lives in a world of possibilities. Amazing imagination
Loves debating
Excellent problem solver- very solution orientated. Absolutely loves solving problems. He doesnt just whinge about something, he fixes it.
Loves people
Hilarious- one of the funniest people I know, could definately do stand up comedy
Great story teller/ orator/ MC- knows how to engage people
Inspiring- excellent motivator
Very persuasive- can sell ice to an eskimo.
Realistic and optimistic
Extremely resilliant to stress
Childlike
Can be very hardworking and single minded when necessary
Excellent in a crisis situation
Passionate and energetic
Believes in constant self growth and improvement
Adaptable, flexible and spontaneous
Reasonable, rational, logical
Feels very deeply and is unashamed to show his emotions
Extremely intelligent and quick witted

Weaknesses
Easily distracted
Can be lazy
Can be inpractical- does not think all his ideas through
Terrible judge of character- he and the other ENTPs I know seriously make bad judgement calls about people. Its like they cant tell whether a person wishes them harm or not.
Naive- believes in the good of people a little more than is healthy, even though he has personally seen the worst of people. He has dealt with a lot of unsavoury people, criminals and lived on the streets for two years and still gives people too much leeway
Loses everything- all the time- keys, wallet, phone, clothes, shoes, pens, documents, everything! Despite going out of his way to by good quality stuff, his clothes just fall apart all the time- like the seam of a new shirt will just come undone or his buttons will fall off.
Absent minded at times- too peoccupied with his thougts and imagination
Self centred/self indulgent- doesnt judge himself in the same way he judges others. Takes things too personally
Boastful
Low confidence- this can mask itself as arrogance and over compensation
Very loud and dramatic
Manipulative
Attention seeking- needs so much attention, monopolises my time
Poor time management and organisation skills
Prone to exaggeration- always over and underestimating and embellishing details
Prone to jealousy
Inconsistent

Generally we get along great. He is 'salt of the earth' and has a big heart. Very people focused and genuinely wants to improve the lives of all people. Very passionate about his country and the world. He loves heroes and underdogs and backing the little guy. We've spent days debating, laughing, brainstorming, playing age of empires, writing stories, scripts and songs, shooting each other with nerf guns and playing with toy helicopters and cars and gadgets. He loves toys, gadgets, gimmicks and new technology. He reminds me of the inventor in the childrens movie 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang'.

He has changed a lot in the time that Ive known him. He was well on is way towards being rich before he met me, and then I ruined everything with my constant moralising (i dont know if he's entirely forgiven me). He lives pretty ethically now and is great at informing and motivating others around him to do the same. He also tries really hard not to lie anymore, well to me, anyway. The thing I like best about him is that he is willing to change and is not stuck in his way. Thats pretty much his attitude towards everthing in the world though. He cant help but see the potential and possibilities in the world because he's not 'tied' to anything, and he is willing to make changes as necessary to strive for improvement.

The ENTP personality reminds me of the Magician card in tarot. They have great potential and magnetic personalities but its hard to know how 'real' they are. If you believe in them they can flourish, fullfill their potential and be truly great, otherwise its just empty promises and sandcastles in the sky.

 

[Quiet]

OMG I also had a relationship with an ENTP/ Narcissist. IT was terrible, traumatic. I wont date an ENTP now. It's hard to tell the difference.

Im really sorry that you had this terrible experience CindyLou. I can see how this could have happened and I can imagine how mind-fxxking and soul draining it would have been for you. I hope things are better for you now.

 

[ENT8]

Seriously???

OMG I also had a relationship with an ENTP/ Narcissist. IT was terrible, traumatic. I wont date an ENTP now. It's hard to tell the difference.

BTW CLou - i quoted you, but this answer is just as well directed at the OP, or any other who shares such a sentiment as yourself.

I don't believe it's any harder to tell the difference between an ENTP and a narcissist, than it is to tell the difference from an ENTJ and a sociopath, or probably for that matter an enneagram 3 and a psychopath...etc.

When dealing with pathology, particularly pathology that tends toward exploitation of others or has some overtones of sociopathy, you must bear in mind that these types of people are very adept at appearing at first to be something much more benign... however, one can become equally adept at "detecting" such traits very quickly upon initially meeting such a person, if one chooses to do so.

And while such a social "skill" may not pass muster in a clinical situation, it will pass muster where it matters most - to your own emotional/physical/mental health and well being.

I generally test out as an ENTP (i'm 51% P, or 51% J, depending on the day), though I relate slightly more to the extroverted intuition than i do the extroverted thinking.

I could get into some fairly detailed "paint by numbers" BS on how one can "screen" for versions of sociopathy in their casual conversations, but that would be more complicated and likely miss the point i'm going to make.

It's actually much more simple that that.

If you meet someone who identifies as an ENTP, simply watch how well they take criticism. They take it well? or at least not badly? good. then this is a decent person you may consider getting to know better.

Then, open up your feelings (very very carefully), and see if they ever "use this" against you. Now, if they DO, it is possible they are joking. if it hurts you however, let them know this. if they are considerate and apologetic or otherwise let you

know that they did not understand such, and would not have done so if they did... CONGRATULATIONS! You are probably not dealing with nut case.

All ENTP's will argue for sport at some point in time. (actually, most NT's will) When this occurs, simply convey to them your point. if they say something like "well, I disagree, and I don't think your looking at this correctly" Fine.

If they say something like "wow... really? I mean, you haven't thought this through at all... or... do you just not do that much... u know, think?" well, this person is probably a douchebag/nutjob/suffering from some sort of pathology/etc.

Now, if this is said at the end of an arguement, after tears/outbursts/highly emotionally charged conversation - take it with a grain of salt, as all people say things they don't mean when they are furious or otherwise overly emotional.

I mean... really... it's not that hard to tell an ENTP from a psychopath of some sort!

one will seem more human, more genuine, will be considerate when it really matters, and will also (if you get to know them well) show themselves during certain moments to be vulnerable or insecure in some way or "less than perfect"....etc.

if they don't show any of these traits... does it matter what their MEYERSBRIGG-JUNG-ENNEATYPE-OLOGY is? I suppose in a purely academic sense....maybe... sorta. maybe.

but in a "actually matters to me in real life" sense... it's much more simple: while some personality "types" will have specific traits that express themselves in particular ways that can ellicit some sort of negative response from others... they still will be just as sensitive, empathic, have just as many feelings, concerns, insecurities, etc... as any other given person, and therefore, are no different than any other given person (so to speak)

if they DO NOT exhibit these traits... they are either pathological or dysfunctional. And either way.... why bother with such nonsense?

As if ENTP's have a monopoly on various forms of pathology, or even NPD for that matter.

 

[Blind Bandit]

BTW CLou - i quoted you, but this answer is just as well directed at the OP, or any other who shares such a sentiment as yourself.

I don't believe it's any harder to tell the difference between an ENTP and a narcissist, than it is to tell the difference from an ENTJ and a sociopath, or probably for that matter an enneagram 3 and a psychopath...etc.

When dealing with pathology, particularly pathology that tends toward exploitation of others or has some overtones of sociopathy, you must bear in mind that these types of people are very adept at appearing at first to be something much more benign... however, one can become equally adept at "detecting" such traits very quickly upon initially meeting such a person, if one chooses to do so.

And while such a social "skill" may not pass muster in a clinical situation, it will pass muster where it matters most - to your own emotional/physical/mental health and well being.

I generally test out as an ENTP (i'm 51% P, or 51% J, depending on the day), though I relate slightly more to the extroverted intuition than i do the extroverted thinking.

I could get into some fairly detailed "paint by numbers" BS on how one can "screen" for versions of sociopathy in their casual conversations, but that would be more complicated and likely miss the point i'm going to make.

It's actually much more simple that that.

If you meet someone who identifies as an ENTP, simply watch how well they take criticism. They take it well? or at least not badly? good. then this is a decent person you may consider getting to know better.

Then, open up your feelings (very very carefully), and see if they ever "use this" against you. Now, if they DO, it is possible they are joking. if it hurts you however, let them know this. if they are considerate and apologetic or otherwise let you

know that they did not understand such, and would not have done so if they did... CONGRATULATIONS! You are probably not dealing with nut case.

All ENTP's will argue for sport at some point in time. (actually, most NT's will) When this occurs, simply convey to them your point. if they say something like "well, I disagree, and I don't think your looking at this correctly" Fine.

If they say something like "wow... really? I mean, you haven't thought this through at all... or... do you just not do that much... u know, think?" well, this person is probably a douchebag/nutjob/suffering from some sort of pathology/etc.

Now, if this is said at the end of an arguement, after tears/outbursts/highly emotionally charged conversation - take it with a grain of salt, as all people say things they don't mean when they are furious or otherwise overly emotional.

I mean... really... it's not that hard to tell an ENTP from a psychopath of some sort!

one will seem more human, more genuine, will be considerate when it really matters, and will also (if you get to know them well) show themselves during certain moments to be vulnerable or insecure in some way or "less than perfect"....etc.

if they don't show any of these traits... does it matter what their MEYERSBRIGG-JUNG-ENNEATYPE-OLOGY is? I suppose in a purely academic sense....maybe... sorta. maybe.

but in a "actually matters to me in real life" sense... it's much more simple: while some personality "types" will have specific traits that express themselves in particular ways that can ellicit some sort of negative response from others... they still will be just as sensitive, empathic, have just as many feelings, concerns, insecurities, etc... as any other given person, and therefore, are no different than any other given person (so to speak)

if they DO NOT exhibit these traits... they are either pathological or dysfunctional. And either way.... why bother with such nonsense?

As if ENTP's have a monopoly on various forms of pathology, or even NPD for that matter.

Lets just say its very very hard to find a truly healthy ENTP that isn't narcissistic, manipulative and generally not an asshole to those around them.

 

[ENT8]

Asarya, interesting list you have there... I know you meant it specifically with your husband in mind, but I wanted to point out I think some of what you've listed has more to do with ones enneagram type (or something other than Meyers Brigg typology)

As an ENTP, it seems you are describing many of the traits of an ENTP 7. As for myself, I'm an ENTP 8... and while some I relate to (I do lose things more than most, I tend to be absent minded, as well as somewhat dramatic and yes loud... there are some on the list I believe have no relation to being an ENTP at all. In no particular order below, but namely:

1. Prone to Jealousy - never experienced it unless justified, and at that point, I generally just end the relationship (I can't stand games, and won't waste a moment with those who chooose to play them)
2. Prone to exaggeration - Not about anything material, and rarely about anything at all. I personally tend to be more authentic than most people are comfortable with in fact.
3. attention seeking - selectively, and not when engaged with my work (unless it is relevant and important to my work directly)
4. low confidence - nope. can't relate to this at all. Moments of disappointment of course, but it almost never undermines my confidence... my mood yes, confidence, no.
5. Boastful - only when it's true and relevant.
6. self centered / self indulgent - absolutely, but I judge myself exactly as I would judge others, and there are few on this earth that are even capable of saying something i would take "too personally"
7. Manipulative - myself...not at all. though "morally lacking" would be more appropriate of description when I look back at some moments of deep personal failure in the past. Albeit, I always redress such problems as quickly and completely
as I am able to, and as I am made aware of such.
8. Terrible Judge of Character - This one actually was the spurn to post this here, particularly since you said it also applies to "other ENTP's" as well. I've only been "conned" once in my lifetime, and the irony was I knew it was happening, and I
let it happen anyway because a particular set of circumstances would possibly have become absolutely desperate had I followed what I had in fact told others NOT to do. I've worked in a family business or my own for years now, and in some cases sealed sizable deals on nothing more than handshakes, and I'm yet to come up short. Of course, I'm more likely to see how someone is useful, than to see how someone is... and I do think the best of just about everyone...just as long as they "prove it" to me should I ever engage myself in anything more than the most casual interaction. That being said, there is almost never any "proving" that need be done, because I simply don't engage anyone regarding anything meaningful until after i've already decided I can trust them to whatever extent I need to.

To give a more "functional" illustration of this process, upon meeting someone I don't know well but may in fact conduct business with them, and also will need to trust them above and beyond the typeical "transactional" exchange... I will sometimes choose one of many conversational "tests" to see "what they are made of". For example: I was once considering doing business with a guy of about 35... and in our casual surroundings it was somewhat appropriate to notice or even comment on the finer attributes of any number of passing females. I made a comment along the lines of it's nice to look, but anything more is trouble, as I've been there before.

This was total BS on my part. I've never cheated in my life. but I wanted to see how HE reacted to such an "admission" on my behalf. He agreed with me, and admitted he too had been "in trouble" before... and as he said this, he was checking out another girl as she walked by. I concluded he is apt to cheat on his comittments if he believes he can get away with it, and furthermore, almost lacked self control when seeing something of interest to him. And if this assessment was wrong, at very least he is too "diplomatic" or "people pleasing" to be able to conduct himself in the role I would have required him to fill... as exemplified by his willingness to let me lead down a questionable path of conversation, without so much as a pause on his behalf.

Needless to say, we didn't work together.

I know this point is somewhat drawn out, but I wanted to clearly illustrate how I as an ENTP go about my casual conversations and relations. maybe it's the self pres instinctual bias, maybe it's the enneagram 8 motivations... whatever. it stands that I'm an ENTP, and I believe i'm a pretty decent judge of character... so I disagree that one can say "ENTP's are bad judges of character"

 

[ENT8]

Lets just say its very very hard to find a truly healthy ENTP that isn't narcissistic, manipulative and generally an asshole to those around them.

I really couldn't speak to that, other than to say: One - I disagree, and Two - I find the level of health that people tend to find in their casual interactions (particularly in their "choosen" casual interactions like friends, aquaintences... but excluding co-workers..etc) is much more a reflection of that individuals level of health, than it is a reflection of a specific "demographic"'s level of health (excluding the obvious groups of pathology, etc).

Simply put: Crack whores rarely fraternize with sunday school teachers, and healthy individuals and groups rarely fraternize with unhealthy individuals or groups.

If you feel otherwise, I would suggest that it would be prudent to be considerate of the paradigm of "survivorship bias"... while I am misusing this concept... the underlying analogy I believe is illustrated anyway: if there are more laid back, less obnoxious, more introspective, less verbally quarrelsome ENTP's in your field of experience.... you probably won't be as quick to notice them, or even recognize them as ENTP's. Obviously because they just don't stand out like the one's you know.

It would be something akin to me saying "it's pretty hard to find an introvert who isn't shy, insecure, and socially awkward"

while this may hold true more often for introverts than extroverts, and of course THOSE are the introverts I will notice more than "other introverts" (because they seem like some weird freak when I try to engage them in conversation).... it is very simply not true, and furthermore, is not even the majority of introverts...but in fact a "visible minority"

 

[ENT8]

I've heard people say they're supposed to be very compatible with us INFJ's but of all the types of people I've ever met, the only one I've ever really, truly hated to the core was an ENTP. She was a deceitful, smooth-talking backstabber who never admitted guilt or fault and cost a lot of good people their jobs, including me.

After bringing it up to a therapist, we both agreed she suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but there wasn't anything people around her who saw this were able to do about it. She sucked up to all the right people and found her niche in a field where people were overly forgiving (think in terms of xxFP's).

So, I'm biased.

It was hard to tell what fell into the NPD pattern and what was just part of her normal personality. Things like arguing with people even when she agreed with them, just to have the final say on a subject annoyed the hell out of me. Never showing up to anything on time or following through with commitments other people were relying on also pissed me off to no end. (Of course, the other half of that was blaming other people for not doing something and deflecting any blame from herself)

So now, I want to give any of the few ENTP's on here, or people that are close friends with them, a chance to redeem their type to me. I don't like disliking entire groups of people, but with this one person playing such a key role in the past year's worth of chaos in my life, I find myself gritting my teeth when someone mentions that MBTI type. I need something positive to undo some of this scarring. I really am sick of hating them, honest!

What are some of the good traits? What aspects of their/your personalities did this person trample over, that I might not have seen? What are some of the good experiences other people have had with ENTP's or ENTP's have had with others?

good traits - plenty... funny, energetic, can often "get" INFJ's on a non-verbal level with ease, smart of course, can be charming, can become quite accomplished.

bad traits - same list of bad traits anyone would associate with a person, and more often those associated with ENTP's will be most apparent and frequent. It's really a "level of health" thing.

unhealthy ESTP's can be con men, bullies, and physically abusive
unhealthy INFJ's can be depressive, self loathing, envious, jealous, paranoid, suffer from schizotypal pathology (to name but one), suicidal, and in rare cases self righteous to an extent that expresses itself as abusive, etc.
Unhealthy ENTJ's can be psychopathic, (think serial killers), abrasive, abusive physically, emotionally, etc... arrogant, concided, brutally perfectionistic, etc.
Unhealthy ISTP's can be unfaithful, gambling addicts, con men, theieves, short tempered, physically abusive, xenophobic, paranoid, prone to express symtoms that would best be characterized as "antisocial personality disorder", etc...

etc... etc.. etc...

people at the far ends of the bell curve (both healthy and unhealthy) tend to get noticed more often, but only because they are "different" in some very obvious manner. And while it's true that ENTP's are more prone to developing and exhibiting symptoms of NPD than...say, an INFP... it is absolutely of vital importance to recognize that this person had as much to do with representing "ENTP's"... as they do in representing "the typical career oriented female"

Quit choosing to frame them in your mind as "an ENTP"... as it is no more relevent to their behavior and your experience with them as...say... framing them in your mind as a "career oriented female"

I won't be so presumptious as to recommend what you choose to frame them as... but I will say that when I meet people like this (I oh so rarely do, but, when it does happen) I tend to label them as "pathological"... or "mentally ill".
or even something more crass like "$hithead". I find that such descriptions of such people actually works better on multilple levels. 1. It communicates to my subconcious, as well as to other people, the exact, precise "essense" of what they are. In this case, thinking of them as an "ENTP" actually will only create such a broad generalization it will be both confusing (to yourself and others) as well as imprecise. $hithead, on the other hand, is clearly communicated, more accurate, and more precise... to say nothing of "mentally ill"

Point is, I don't believe you need to find examples of ENTP's who don't act or behave in such manners to satiate your desire to feel good about "ENTP's"

I believe you need to use the most accurate, most precise descriptions of a person when communicating or thinking about such a person, and simply leave all inferred or extranious or immaterial details out.

However, for the record, I am an ENTP, I'm married to an INFJ, and we both feel we are the greatest thing to ever have happen to one another.

 

[Lerxst]

good traits - plenty... funny, energetic, can often "get" INFJ's on a non-verbal level with ease, smart of course, can be charming, can become quite accomplished.

bad traits - same list of bad traits anyone would associate with a person, and more often those associated with ENTP's will be most apparent and frequent. It's really a "level of health" thing.

unhealthy ESTP's can be con men, bullies, and physically abusive
unhealthy INFJ's can be depressive, self loathing, envious, jealous, paranoid, suffer from schizotypal pathology (to name but one), suicidal, and in rare cases self righteous to an extent that expresses itself as abusive, etc.
Unhealthy ENTJ's can be psychopathic, (think serial killers), abrasive, abusive physically, emotionally, etc... arrogant, concided, brutally perfectionistic, etc.
Unhealthy ISTP's can be unfaithful, gambling addicts, con men, theieves, short tempered, physically abusive, xenophobic, paranoid, prone to express symtoms that would best be characterized as "antisocial personality disorder", etc...

etc... etc.. etc...

people at the far ends of the bell curve (both healthy and unhealthy) tend to get noticed more often, but only because they are "different" in some very obvious manner. And while it's true that ENTP's are more prone to developing and exhibiting symptoms of NPD than...say, an INFP... it is absolutely of vital importance to recognize that this person had as much to do with representing "ENTP's"... as they do in representing "the typical career oriented female"

Quit choosing to frame them in your mind as "an ENTP"... as it is no more relevent to their behavior and your experience with them as...say... framing them in your mind as a "career oriented female"

I won't be so presumptious as to recommend what you choose to frame them as... but I will say that when I meet people like this (I oh so rarely do, but, when it does happen) I tend to label them as "pathological"... or "mentally ill".
or even something more crass like "$hithead". I find that such descriptions of such people actually works better on multilple levels. 1. It communicates to my subconcious, as well as to other people, the exact, precise "essense" of what they are. In this case, thinking of them as an "ENTP" actually will only create such a broad generalization it will be both confusing (to yourself and others) as well as imprecise. $hithead, on the other hand, is clearly communicated, more accurate, and more precise... to say nothing of "mentally ill"

Point is, I don't believe you need to find examples of ENTP's who don't act or behave in such manners to satiate your desire to feel good about "ENTP's"

I believe you need to use the most accurate, most precise descriptions of a person when communicating or thinking about such a person, and simply leave all inferred or extranious or immaterial details out.

However, for the record, I am an ENTP, I'm married to an INFJ, and we both feel we are the greatest thing to ever have happen to one another.

Let's just say ENTPs tend to walk a very fine line they often trip over in either direction more so than most others I've met. They seem to be living proof of the laws of entropy, creating disorder in everything around them. Sometimes they can control it, I'm guessing thanks to the outside influence of those around them, but other times it gets the better of them. And when its left unchecked, that's when everyone else should clear the area; they seem to take a scorched earth approach to dealing with the world around them.

 

[Blind Bandit]

Let's just say ENTPs tend to walk a very fine line they often trip over in either direction more so than most others I've met. They seem to be living proof of the laws of entropy, creating disorder in everything around them. Sometimes they can control it, I'm guessing thanks to the outside influence of those around them, but other times it gets the better of them. And when its left unchecked, that's when everyone else should clear the area; they seem to take a scorched earth approach to dealing with the world around them.

Well said. And exactly what I was trying to get across.

 

[Nixie]

I can't say I read this whole thing but I want to make something perfectly clear---arguing IS a sport.......carry on.

 

[ENT8]

Let's just say ENTPs tend to walk a very fine line they often trip over in either direction more so than most others I've met. They seem to be living proof of the laws of entropy, creating disorder in everything around them. Sometimes they can control it, I'm guessing thanks to the outside influence of those around them, but other times it gets the better of them. And when its left unchecked, that's when everyone else should clear the area; they seem to take a scorched earth approach to dealing with the world around them.

Well, I hear what your saying, and i'm not unfamiliar with what your referring to either... but I tend to think your particular disposition is more inclined to find the particular way in which ENTP's "fail" or "go bad" or whatever...etc... more upsetting and unsettling than the ways in which other types "fail"/"go bad"/etc... Mind you, another person may go absolutely bonkers when it comes to dealing with an ESTJ, because of their rigidity and adherence to traditional structures, and the occassional completely insensitive outburst, be it in jest, or a serious pointed criticism. I know I used to feel this way somewhat with regard to ESTJ's myself (the beauracrat in all of them strikes a nerve with me)... however, once I got past my teen years, I came to see the value in such behaviors/outlooks/dispositions/etc.... I just don't expect ESTJ's to be MR. FLEXIBLE or MRS. OUTSIDE-THE-BOX. I do expect them to be dependable, hard working, straight forward, fun loving, organized, prompt, and driven by a deep sense of duty.

And in this, I am very very rarely disappointed. So maybe it's simply you expect something that isn't likely to happen as you expect. They will tend to be fun, charming, intellectual, somewhat exciting, etc.... but don't expect them to coordinate activities well, organize group affairs, sit back and listen to your thoughts, etc.

Of course, mature and somewhat developed ENTP will have no problem doing all of the above, and then some. Using myself as an example, I will often run a few minutes late to social events (professional events are another matter, and I'm very rarely late to these), and I tend to have to check 3-4 places to find my keys before I leave my house... but I've also built a couple businesses from the ground up, managed half a doze....

you know what. forget it. The bottom line is you've met some retarded ENTP's. If you choose to see ENTP's as a whole as somehow "intrinsicly destructive", I believe that's a limiting, somewhat myopic point of view. Period.

There are some ENTP's who simply would not fit that point of view.

ENT8

P.S. oh, as far as "perfect match to INFJ" goes... I have found this often to be the case with female INFJ's and male ENTP's... but not so when it is reversed. I have no idea why, but it is a pattern that I find shows up more often than not.

 

[Trifoilum]

....

Still cannot understand (despite my own opinions about ENTP, which aren't so pristine or favorable) why everytime there's a thread about ENTPs it's always descended into debates-- or to be more biasedly pointed, people attacking and defending this particular type.

"OMG THEIR AWFUL" "NO THEY AWESOME U MAD BRO" "NO U" "SHUT YOUR TRAP YOU BIGOT" "U THE BIGOT"

Not exactly questioning the -reasons- (each have their reasons, I know), but the flow of the threads.
I thought we were supposed to hate ESTJs.

But I guess I should end this before I bring more flames. >_>;
And no, I'm not blaming or judging the posters per se (although I'm quite sure [MENTION=630]Blind Bandit[/MENTION]'s opinion regarding ENTPs are well known...), just...
....why?

 

[ENT8]

....

Still cannot understand (despite my own opinions about ENTP, which aren't so pristine or favorable) why everytime there's a thread about ENTPs it's always descended into debates-- or to be more biasedly pointed, people attacking and defending this particular type.

"OMG THEIR AWFUL" "NO THEY AWESOME U MAD BRO" "NO U" "SHUT YOUR TRAP YOU BIGOT" "U THE BIGOT"

Not exactly questioning the -reasons- (each have their reasons, I know), but the flow of the threads.
I thought we were supposed to hate ESTJs.

But I guess I should end this before I bring more flames. >_>;
And no, I'm not blaming or judging the posters per se (although I'm quite sure [MENTION=630]Blind Bandit[/MENTION]'s opinion regarding ENTPs are well known...), just...
....why?

not sure about the other posts....but this one started off on a biased, semi-derogatory manner. Although it was not out of ill will per se'.... and there was some measure of attempt to see the positives...

it did very clearly state a negative bias towards the type in the very first post.

essentially, it was a "gauntlet" being thrown down to the degree it was a challenge to prove to the OP why ENTP's were not what he believes them to be.

And... your not clear on how such a stance can incite debate?

 

[Quiet]

Asarya, interesting list you have there... I know you meant it specifically with your husband in mind, but I wanted to point out I think some of what you've listed has more to do with ones enneagram type (or something other than Meyers Brigg typology)

As an ENTP, it seems you are describing many of the traits of an ENTP 7. As for myself, I'm an ENTP 8... and while some I relate to (I do lose things more than most, I tend to be absent minded, as well as somewhat dramatic and yes loud... there are some on the list I believe have no relation to being an ENTP at all. In no particular order below, but namely:

1. Prone to Jealousy - never experienced it unless justified, and at that point, I generally just end the relationship (I can't stand games, and won't waste a moment with those who chooose to play them)
2. Prone to exaggeration - Not about anything material, and rarely about anything at all. I personally tend to be more authentic than most people are comfortable with in fact.
3. attention seeking - selectively, and not when engaged with my work (unless it is relevant and important to my work directly)
4. low confidence - nope. can't relate to this at all. Moments of disappointment of course, but it almost never undermines my confidence... my mood yes, confidence, no.
5. Boastful - only when it's true and relevant.
6. self centered / self indulgent - absolutely, but I judge myself exactly as I would judge others, and there are few on this earth that are even capable of saying something i would take "too personally"
7. Manipulative - myself...not at all. though "morally lacking" would be more appropriate of description when I look back at some moments of deep personal failure in the past. Albeit, I always redress such problems as quickly and completely
as I am able to, and as I am made aware of such.
8. Terrible Judge of Character - This one actually was the spurn to post this here, particularly since you said it also applies to "other ENTP's" as well. I've only been "conned" once in my lifetime, and the irony was I knew it was happening, and I
let it happen anyway because a particular set of circumstances would possibly have become absolutely desperate had I followed what I had in fact told others NOT to do. I've worked in a family business or my own for years now, and in some cases sealed sizable deals on nothing more than handshakes, and I'm yet to come up short. Of course, I'm more likely to see how someone is useful, than to see how someone is... and I do think the best of just about everyone...just as long as they "prove it" to me should I ever engage myself in anything more than the most casual interaction. That being said, there is almost never any "proving" that need be done, because I simply don't engage anyone regarding anything meaningful until after i've already decided I can trust them to whatever extent I need to.

To give a more "functional" illustration of this process, upon meeting someone I don't know well but may in fact conduct business with them, and also will need to trust them above and beyond the typeical "transactional" exchange... I will sometimes choose one of many conversational "tests" to see "what they are made of". For example: I was once considering doing business with a guy of about 35... and in our casual surroundings it was somewhat appropriate to notice or even comment on the finer attributes of any number of passing females. I made a comment along the lines of it's nice to look, but anything more is trouble, as I've been there before.

This was total BS on my part. I've never cheated in my life. but I wanted to see how HE reacted to such an "admission" on my behalf. He agreed with me, and admitted he too had been "in trouble" before... and as he said this, he was checking out another girl as she walked by. I concluded he is apt to cheat on his comittments if he believes he can get away with it, and furthermore, almost lacked self control when seeing something of interest to him. And if this assessment was wrong, at very least he is too "diplomatic" or "people pleasing" to be able to conduct himself in the role I would have required him to fill... as exemplified by his willingness to let me lead down a questionable path of conversation, without so much as a pause on his behalf.

Needless to say, we didn't work together.

I know this point is somewhat drawn out, but I wanted to clearly illustrate how I as an ENTP go about my casual conversations and relations. maybe it's the self pres instinctual bias, maybe it's the enneagram 8 motivations... whatever. it stands that I'm an ENTP, and I believe i'm a pretty decent judge of character... so I disagree that one can say "ENTP's are bad judges of character"

Hey there [MENTION=5662]ENT8[/MENTION]

Thank you for sharing your experience and your own idiosyncracies.

In regards to the 'bad judge of character' part in particular, my thoughts have changed on that since my perception has grown. I think one of the main reasons I thought that was because I used to be a lot more suspicious, distrustful and judgemental towards others, where as the ENTPs I personally know are not really like that. They seem to be able to give anyone a chance. This is an attitude that I respect and I have learned to put some of my biases aside and be more this way myself.
Also, ENTPS in my experience all seem to be great at weighing up potential and possibilities in others. my ENTP is a great coach, motivator and manager to people. He is able to look at someone and size up and build on their qualities. He is great at developing the potential in others. And one of my other ENTP friends is a talent scout/personal manager. They take their relationships with others very seriously and are thoroughly invested into the wellbeing of their clients/employees. They both spend a lot of time after hours providing people with additional support. And like with what you were saying, they too get hunches and intuition about people, and can foresee certain probablities in behaviour

Where I thought they were being naive and too trustful before was me being too distrustful and judgemental before. So I correct myself now, I do not think that ENTPs are bad jugdes of character. i would say that they are prepared to understand people, are less judgemental and more willing to give others a chance than some other MBTI types.

Yes all ENTPs will be different. In some ways there is as much difference within type as there are between types. The enneagram and other personality tools are helpful to build a better and more comprehensive picture as these different systems explore different areas of perception and motivation. I think that 'my' ENTP is an enneagram type 5 or 4.

The most important thing is personal experience. What one is exposed to and how they respond to their environment is the most significant factor in developing personality and possible manifestations. And no two people have the same experience.

It is all important for us to be aware that MBTI is not a diagnostic tool, and that MBTI descriptions do not dictate overall personality. These are not tools that can be effectively used to judge, predict, limit or justify behaviour. Humans are all unique and have free will.

These are simply tools we can use to begin the process of understanding and appreciating. We sell ourselves short, however, when we use these tools to judge ourselves and others. Then we fail to recognise a person for who they are, and genuinely understand and learn from the experience.

There is no such thing as if you have met one ENTP that you have met all others. Such a view is simply limiting and prejudiced. And subsequently stops us from learning.

 

[ENT8]

Hey there [MENTION=5662]ENT8[/MENTION]

Thank you for sharing your experience and your own idiosyncracies.

In regards to the 'bad judge of character' part in particular, my thoughts have changed on that since my perception has grown. I think one of the main reasons I thought that was because I used to be a lot more suspicious, distrustful and judgemental towards others, where as the ENTPs I personally know are not really like that. They seem to be able to give anyone a chance. This is an attitude that I respect and I have learned to put some of my biases aside and be more this way myself.
Also, ENTPS in my experience all seem to be great at weighing up potential and possibilities in others. my ENTP is a great coach, motivator and manager to people. He is able to look at someone and size up and build on their qualities. He is great at developing the potential in others. And one of my other ENTP friends is a talent scout/personal manager. They take their relationships with others very seriously and are thoroughly invested into the wellbeing of their clients/employees. They both spend a lot of time after hours providing people with additional support. And like with what you were saying, they too get hunches and intuition about people, and can foresee certain probablities in behaviour

Where I thought they were being naive and too trustful before was me being too distrustful and judgemental before. So I correct myself now, I do not think that ENTPs are bad jugdes of character. i would say that they are prepared to understand people, are less judgemental and more willing to give others a chance than some other MBTI types.

Yes all ENTPs will be different. In some ways there is as much difference within type as there are between types. The enneagram and other personality tools are helpful to build a better and more comprehensive picture as these different systems explore different areas of perception and motivation. I think that 'my' ENTP is an enneagram type 5 or 4.

The most important thing is personal experience. What one is exposed to and how they respond to their environment is the most significant factor in developing personality and possible manifestations. And no two people have the same experience.

It is all important for us to be aware that MBTI is not a diagnostic tool, and that MBTI descriptions do not dictate overall personality. These are not tools that can be effectively used to judge, predict, limit or justify behaviour. Humans are all unique and have free will.

These are simply tools we can use to begin the process of understanding and appreciating. We sell ourselves short, however, when we use these tools to judge ourselves and others. Then we fail to recognise a person for who they are, and genuinely understand and learn from the experience.

There is no such thing as if you have met one ENTP that you have met all others. Such a view is simply limiting and prejudiced. And subsequently stops us from learning.

Ahhh....ha! I completely see your old, and new, point of view now.

and yes, your correct, we are more accepting of others. I have had a couple of "colorful" relations before myself. But, as you note.... it doesn't mean that I was naieve to realize what the potential risks or complications could be! I knew very well, it's just that I had (accurately, I might add) ascertained that they could indeed be a problem, but not a problem to me. in other words, their own personal pitfalls simply did not exist in my jungle. so, they could pass through my space, and neither of us had much to worry about.

Anyway, thanks for your post... I mean, really, i ride the P/J line like a tight rope act... but i just couldln't imagine even being "full blown P" would I NOT somehow retain most of my insights into the human condition, and individuals as well.

I'm not the best at this of course! but, far, far from the worst. seems I don't need to say anymore though

-E

 

[Silverwing]

I happen to like ENTPs. All the people I've ever met who were ENTPs
I thought were hillarious and and great story tellers. I've noticed that when they are under stress, they can be argumentative and rude at times, but don't we all get pissy when we're under a tremendous amount of stress. I know I can be very snappy and standoffish. There are good and bad people in any personality type. It's not fair to limit someone based on just that.