[PUG] Osama Bin Laden is dead Part II

[Nixie]

@Norton, that was the most fucking immature thing I've ever heard from someone in a while. You think you know better because you worship logic and are older than myself who is scared for "his" country. My father is just like that and that fucker don't know a thing about what democracy means.

Logic does not work when speaking about the loss of human life. An emotional but rational argument is better for this situation because PEOPLE DYING IS FOREVER. THEY DON'T COME BACK! IS THAT FREEDOM? Sorry, I don't want people dying for me. I wouldn't expect you to do it because I wouldn't do it for you either. Life is fucking precious. You will let people senselessly die for nothing while our own people suffer but I'll bet abortion is high up on the list of what you hate. Because it's probably "un-American" and goes against "American values".

Well guess what? The system is being challenged by my generation. Your generation got us into this mess and fucked us over for a good 20 years and now you want to tell me how to run this place. Holy shit, the nerve.

Our society is not extremely liberal. I hear that from the right every day and it pisses me the fuck off. So much, I'm about to scream. We fuck over so many poor and sick people every day. Provide tax breaks to the rich as well as fortune 500 companies so that the authoritarian GOP and centrist Dems can get campaign contributions.

The "leftist" democrats are where the center was 40 years ago. Reagan would be a democrat today. Eisenhower wanted national fucking healthcare. Teddy Roosevelt was an early environmentalist. They would be treated like bernie sanders is today.

That's fine you can think what you want to think but DO NOT EVER tell my generation we don't know because we're too young and Naive.

LOL. This reminds me of the 60's! Difference is that the 60's generation were activists. IMO your generation lacks the spirit and determination to effect change. Your technology isolates you from each other and holds your attention more firmly than trying to make the world better. I see many of you playing with your phones and xboxes and ipods more than I see you working in soup kitchens or marching in protests. I appreciate the spirit of the post but money talks and bullshit walks is the old saying. What are you doing?

 

[MindYourHead]

Elowen mentioned a video.
I'm surprised Osama Bin Laden didn't put a video together to play to the world should he be killed. One that would cast doubt of his death.

We lost Korea. Terribly. It was a massacre.

Since technically, it has been in cease fire mode since 1953 the war isn't over. At a stalemate as you call it. Which in itself means there has been no winner or loser declared.

The gulf war did not meet it's objectives.

Yes, it did. The objective was to expel Iraqi troops from Kuwait.

LOL. This reminds me of the 60's! Difference is that the 60's generation were activists. IMO your generation lacks the spirit and determination to effect change. Your technology isolates you from each other and holds your attention more firmly than trying to make the world better. I see many of you playing with your phones and xboxes and ipods more than I see you working in soup kitchens or marching in protests. I appreciate the spirit of the post but money talks and bullshit walks is the old saying. What are you doing?

LOL!
I know there are many on this board in that age group, and I don't want to paint all of them with the same brush, but I have to agree. Too many (not all mind you) have very little in the way of interpersonal skills. I see it all the time in the workplace. Very centered on themselves. What's in it for me?

bickelz' generation is going to be led by those that have spent time in the military fighting these wars. People molded and tempered by the very institution he rails against.
They are a different breed.
I'm not exactly sure what generation he was referring to, but mine has just recently come to power.
Best not point fingers until history shows us how we did.

Every generation coming up looks at the previous generation and says "You screwed everything up!"

Just sayin'

 

[myself]

Every generation coming up looks at the previous generation and says "You screwed everything up!"

Just sayin'

True...

there is truth in this assessment

we were taught wrong ways
we perpetuate wrong ways

they screwed up just like we are screwing up

I'd like to see the country held accountable to a council of old wise men.

This nation needs some guidance.
If the people feel too weak to lead themselves, they will be led anywhere by someone with a great ad campaign.

The way I see it, all this celebration over dumping Osama into the sea...
All this over blown patriotism...

it's dangerous... nothing short of manipulation

for what it's worth
it went against my better judgement to post the 'GTFO' comment
it didn't sit well with me, even though I did feel justified

my intent was to say, 'if you want to spread your hate around INFJ forums, I don't appreciate it, and I'd rather see you take a hike'

but instead, perhaps Norton just needs a hug

IDK

perhaps it's an INTP/INFJ thing
we have different ideas about the model we are living with
we believe in different possibilities

in truth, I'd like to see eye to eye with Norton
but if he's only here to cheer for the dark side... I dont know
I question his intentions

perhaps I am way off base

I am going out of town, taking a break from forum for a few days.
Should be back on Monday.

Thanks to all for the neg/positive rep.

I'm sorry that I went on the offensive.
I figured it needed to be done.
It was not the best decision.

 

[bronson_]

1. Wasn't our war.
2. After we entered, there was a stalemate.

It was like most of our wars where it just kind of ends with no clear winner. So we didn't get butchered but we definitely didn't win.

Ok, fair enough, I was objecting to your use of "massacre," perhaps you meant it in another sense.

 

[not sure]

in truth, I'd like to see eye to eye with Norton
but if he's only here to cheer for the dark side... I dont know
I question his intentions

Really, I don't see why you would question [MENTION=1678]Norton[/MENTION]'s intentions. He loves his country and he loves freedom. You have different views.

These are the realities. War is with us, it always has and it always will be. We have wars because there are limited resources and everyone wants to be certain of securing their share. Some try to avoid war at all costs and they end up being the football of others. Some worship war and they sacrifice the health of their nation. Others realize that what Sun Tzu said is true. Nations must study war if they want to maintain their nationhood. If they do not actively and effectively defend themselves they will be made the slaves of others. History provides the evidence. Successful, warfare requires espionage, deception and in the worst cases actual battle. Sun Tzu also said that the acme of excellence was to avoid war. Therefore, all reasonable attempts should be made to settle conflicts peacefully. However, not all conflicts will be settled peacefully because peace requires the cooperation of all parties. The attack on 9/11 demanded a reply. To do nothing would have signalled weakness and the attacks would have continued. Now it is natural to look out for your own before others so, it is not unnatural to choose the death of foreigners over the death of your own. This is survival it is natural.

Sure we would like to prevent war and we should do our best to do so. This is where the practice of compassion comes in. However, make no mistake war will continue despite your best efforts because we do not see eye to eye and because survival trumps warm feelings. I am not belittling warm feelings simply saying their reach is limited. Do the best you can that's all anyone can do. Remember, if you sacrifice you rights for others do not expect them to thank you for it. In fact, do not be surprised if they laugh in your face and take even more than you can give. Once again, history provides the evidence.

There is also a lot of outrage that the US profits from war. Well whenever one embarks on a task you might as well do it properly. Once again to Sun Tzu who says that it is better to deplete the resources of your enemy before depleting your own because it weakens your enemy and strengthens you.

There is also an argument that the wars ruined America's economy. Certainly, they were costly but the banking debacle was probably the costliest debacle the world has ever seen. It dwarfs the wars. May I suggest you take a look at a blog called The Automatic Earth if you wish to learn more on that topic.

I can see both sides of the argument, pro-war and anti-war. There is merit in both but this is reality nothing in life exists in absolutes. There is always a state of flux or there is death. It is the same with this issue the different views oscillate seeking to balance each other. There is no sense in becoming angry at each other just do what is right according to your conscience and recognize that your perspectives differ. Both provide truth but neither provide the whole truth. May I refer you to [MENTION=387]IndigoSensor[/MENTION]'s thread which sadly has been trivialized and since closed. This is the very sort of thing it is meant to address. It's also the very thing typology seeks to teach us. We see the world differently but we don't see it all. "We see through a glass darkly", from the Holy Bible.

Now please relax and think about what I've said before you, the members, reply hastily.

 

[Barnabas]

We lost Korea. Terribly. It was a massacre. The gulf war did not meet it's objectives. Grenada took a day so I wouldn't exactly call that a major win. A win but about 100 people died. That's a small battle.

Korea is an ongoing conflict believe it or not, the countries are living in the longest cease fire in history.

Also no we did not lose, it was a stale mate.

Also we did indeed achieve our goal in the Gulf war.


By WWII standards the wars in the middle east are small battles.

 

[Kanamori]

LOL. This reminds me of the 60's! Difference is that the 60's generation were activists. IMO your generation lacks the spirit and determination to effect change. Your technology isolates you from each other and holds your attention more firmly than trying to make the world better. I see many of you playing with your phones and xboxes and ipods more than I see you working in soup kitchens or marching in protests. I appreciate the spirit of the post but money talks and bullshit walks is the old saying. What are you doing?

This would be, as I see it, the exact opposite of what has happened. When were so many people able to communicate to so many different people across the world? The protests here in Madison were largely led and organized over the internet, or through it, as well as in Egypt.

 

[slant]

 

[bickelz]

[MENTION=3361]Elowen[/MENTION]

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years

Well, then it's only really allowed for two years. Our founding fathers feared a standing army and wanted militia to do that job, which is how you could interpret this clause. If you think about our second amendment, the right to bear arms and the controversy over whether it is still relevant or not, it shows how open our constitution is. The real question is what was the intent? In what context did they want the army to exist? It might sound silly but this line really doesn't disprove that it would be constitutional to get rid of the army. Not saying we should, just that it can be done. I think some people on this thread have interpreted me as saying we should completely get rid of the army, that's not what I was saying.

The main point I was trying to get at was that the GOP is perfectly happy arguing that SS is unconstitutional but when military spending comes up (our biggest expenditure) they tend to FLIP THE FUCK OUT. Lolz.

 

[Skathac]

With all that went down if Bin Laden is truly to blame then yeah I'd like to be able to chew on his skull, not that I would actually do it mind you...but I'd like to have that option. Granted this is not feasible as we aren't talking about the bank robbers we sent the posse out after who then shot them and brought back their corpses to be put on display in pine boxes on the street. This is no longer the wild west and our cultural vampires...I mean media would be all over some dead Osama like flies on shit in the middle of summer as they already are on what tidbits our government released to them.

Of course I'm some poor eccentric southerner whom has neither served his country nor made much of himself on this planet...but I pay my damn taxes and I feel entitled to say what I want when I want to, thank you free speech. And thank you US military for kicking ass for over two hundred years to let me say whatever crazy bullshit I can think up. I may not always agree with how our military is utilized, but I always support their well being and hope for a quick resolution in whatever dangerous endeavor they are sent on. To do otherwise feels as if I'm against those defending my freedom and I can't do that as long as my state is still part of this union. Course the day Alabama decides to annex parts of Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi, I'm behind our local boys n girls first and foremost.

 

[myself]

i remember when bush announced the shock and awe campaign...

we were going after sadam hussein... the dude who killed his own people
the guy who had weapons of mass destruction
he probably was buddies with this osama bin laden guy...

sadam was just as much to blame for 9-11 as anybody

so we sent our army to iraq
was that a good decision?

i think it's time we question what it means to be patriotic

we don't have to back up everything our military does
our military does not represent freedom

militias, citizens bearing arms represents more freedom to me...

GOD BLESS AMERICA
I hope we can do better in the future
I hope we can stop sticking our missiles into other countries
I hope we can get over the thrill of the kill already

or should I switch sides on this issue and start rooting for terror?

yknow... the payload we have been delivering to libya comes with tons of depleted uranium
how do we justify this?

how can we spread freedom in good conscience with depleted uranium stuffed in our missiles?

sad to see this country doing such stupid things.

that's how I see it anyway...

Whats up with Bin Laden's death being reported way back in 2001?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

 

[myself]

just stumbled on this...
have only watched the first 3 minutes so far
seemed relevant enough to post here

i'd be interested to hear your thoughts

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmHCYb9mTbs&feature=fvwkrel"]YouTube - Full Show - 5/2/11. Osama Bin Laden dead[/ame]

 

[Tamagochi]

A very spot-on parody: http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html
LMAO

CORUSCANT

 

[just me]

Been away for awhile. Have to share what my presidential address to the nation would have been.

"OBL is dead. That's all I have to say about that."

I will keep my feelings regarding the matter to myself. This "person" did not deserve so much attention in his death. "One less thing to worry about."