Jesus said "No one can come to the Father except through me". Discuss. | INFJ Forum

Jesus said "No one can come to the Father except through me". Discuss.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Altruistic Muse, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    Does this neccessarily block non-Christians from heaven? Could not Jesus be waiting at heaven for all those who recognise Him and lead them in? If God is Love and Jesus is God, and someone practises a life of Love then they know Love and have faith in Love so they will recognise Jesus/Love. It's still a narrow path because very few are devoted to God and to love. Does it matter whether faith or works? If you know Love then you will have faith in it. If you believe in it then you will act out if it. You cannot have one without the other. If you are not acting out of love, you do not have the faith you profess to have.

    And many other burning questions.

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  2. Kmal

    Kmal Permanent Fixture

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    It requires understanding that you cant get from one verse-- and it'd be good, since you're interested, to read all of the New Testament to gain that understanding.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men, 5 and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it.6 There came a man -- having been sent from God -- whose name is John, 7 this one came for testimony, that he might testify about the Light, that all might believe through him; 8 that one was not the Light, but -- that he might testify about the Light.
    9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world; 10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him: 11 to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him; 12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name, 13 who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten.




    John 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him; 18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 'And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;20 for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected; 21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.'
     
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  3. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    See, verse 21 confirms my views to me. "He that is doing trutg might come to the light". And they may! I hold onto Jesus as my God and the one true way to salvation. But do you not think God has a plan for every single person to bring them back to Him? Evangelisation is all very well, and I will praise the Lord to all that will listen. But not everybody will listen. But I trust that they are learning, preparing in the way that God would have them be prepared. Theirs might not be the quickest or truest way, but it is a route to the Lord eventually. And they will have things to teach us as well. Jesus said he has other sheep who are not of this fold. We are not in a position to bar the way to heaven for anyone else.
     
  4. Kmal

    Kmal Permanent Fixture

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    I see heaven on earth, eternal life here as men (sort of). The definition of man will most definitely change when this comes to pass though.

    Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more; 2 and I, John, saw the holy city -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, 'Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God, 4 and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'


    Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- 21 who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.
     
  5. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    I don't know Kmal. I've never read the NT all the way through, which I will do. But I do know lots of it. And in the gospels at least (the Pauline philosophy can sometimes be a little contradictory) I haven't really found anything that convinces me otherwise. But I am a work of progress, and maybe I will, who knows. I'm not a universalist, because I do believe Jesus is the truth. But God, whom we can never fully comprehend, knows what He is doing. Do yiu really think He made people follow other paths, purely so that we could come to their rescue and prove ourselves? We know Him in relationship and we know that of His word which he has chosen to reveal to us. He knows His will so much better than us. I trust Him. And if I am hanging onto converting and evangelising and heathens and sinners I am not loving. And if I'm not loving where is my faith?
     
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  6. Kmal

    Kmal Permanent Fixture

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    John 14:26 and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
     
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  7. anarkandi

    anarkandi Community Member

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    I hate bible quotes. I was at a camp half a year ago, where people kept throwing and talking about interpretations of them. "Me" could be a metaphor not for necessarily following jesus, but trying to live according to his principles, I think.
     
  8. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    I agree [MENTION=5134]anarkandi[/MENTION]. The other day, a bible-believing Christian who I really like and respect, told me he wanted to get rich. I said oh why would you want to do that? Hard to get into heaven that way. He said oh no, you don't believe that verse do you? You need to look at the context.... Well then I realised that anyone can twist it to make it fit. I love it though. God speaks to me through it. And I get what you're saying about the metaphor too.
     
  9. JGirl

    JGirl no chocolate flavored gum? wow

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    here's my take on it
    jesus is the word (the message if you will)
    no one can have a relationship with god without observing the message.
    hence no one can get to god without going through jesus.
     
  10. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    Sure [MENTION=4855]JGirl[/MENTION]. But isn't it viable to say that Jesus is omnipresent, and you can and should follow Him on earth, but if you don't and have followed another route, with love, then you can meet him on death and go through him to the Father then? Is there a reason why this can't be the case, or can't at least be a solid interpretation and perspective?
     
  11. JGirl

    JGirl no chocolate flavored gum? wow

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    i believe that jesus is 'the word'. he does not belong to any one religion. or any religion at all really. it's the message that is important and even if you haven't been religious or even believed in jesus christ as a person who existed at one point, you can still follow the message in your life simply by loving and caring about fellow humans.
    going to the father through him is a metaphor.
    all of the bible is a metaphor.
     
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  12. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    Ok thanks, interesting :). I pretty much agree, although as a Christian I would say that as He died for our sins etc, you do have to kind of recognise that at some stage! But I do think that he has different plans for different people and love is the key :).
     
  13. Kmal

    Kmal Permanent Fixture

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    1 Corinthians 15:50 And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: 53 for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality; 54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 55 where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?' 56 and the sting of the death is the sin, and the power of the sin the law; 57 and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ;
     
  14. JGirl

    JGirl no chocolate flavored gum? wow

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    i am also a christian, (full immersion baptist actually) however i believe the crucifixion and ressurrection are also parables/metaphors. (i never know which is the right word...probably parable, not that it really matters, you get my drift)

    once i took the 'man' out of the 'message' it became much clearer to me.
    biblical accountings just make a very simple thing very confusing, in my opinion.
    here's kind of the way i see things:
    the way to god is through love.
    if you love, and i mean love without reservation, you are already with god, and you always were and you always will be.
    it's easy to love loveable people. it's not so easy to love challenging people, unless you realize that you don't have to like a person to love them as a human being.
    ***ramble ramble***
     
  15. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    I see it a similar way :). But if you are a Baptist, that's a church that are Bible-believing and literalist. How do they take your viewpoint? I will say that the Bible at no stage professes to be literal, and it doesn't profess to be the only means of accessing the Father. I am trying to work out when both of these beliefs came into being, as I know it wasn't always the case...
     
  16. Nixie

    Nixie Apparently Hostile

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    Your initial logic seems faulty. You presume that Non-Christians believe in your heaven. I am not a Christian. I don't believe that Jesus is my personal savior. I don't believe that heaven or hell exist. I think the Devil is a social construct created by organized religion (in the way distant historical past) to undermine so-called Pagan beliefs and deities. I don't follow or believe in the bible as holy word--I consider it Christian Mythology.
     
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  17. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    [MENTION=3096]Stormy1[/MENTION]. Sure, that's fine. Sorry, I didn't make clear. Obviously I do believe in heaven and hell, and I'm speaking here of people that believe in it, or aim at it, but are from different religions. For those who don't believe in it, or don't aim at it, I guess what I would say is that they wouldn't want to be there anyway, you know? If you go to the gates and there is a God that you don't believe in asking you if you want to come in, you're going to say no aren't you. But we'll agree to disagree on our beliefs in the existence of heaven and hell.
     
  18. acd

    acd baba yaga

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    Why is hell necessary?
    Why would an all powerful and loving God create such a place to keep people for eternity?
    If God is all-knowing, why create people who will just end up there anyway?
    Is it truly free will to base a decision on faith out of fear of the unknown?
    Are unbelievers truly choosing hell, seeing as how there is no evidence for God's existence to make an informed decision?

    I would be asking those questions instead of what the only way to enter heaven, is.
     
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  19. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

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    [MENTION=3096]Stormy1[/MENTION]. As a matter of interest, do you mind if I ask you a question? What would you say is neccessary for a good and successful life? What are your personal aims... knowledge, peace, tolerance etc....
     
  20. Frenchguy

    Frenchguy Regular Poster

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    Interesting read the bible is. Take a peek at the apocryphal books for further enlightenment. The bible as most christians know it is the result of the Roman emperor Constantine wanting to consolidate his power. (Excepting the Greek Orthodox Bible)

    Christ's message was one of love and compassion, noble and worthy pursuits. A fine example to follow.

    I am also not a christian. While there are historical facts contained in the bible, I too see it as mythology. Most mythology contains the same message... "you'll get yours, good or bad, later (after death).

    I fault no one for their beliefs. I think we all need them to one extent or another. If it works for you, great! Just does not fit for me.
     
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