Enneagram Type 8 – 728 days ago

[technics]

i'm sure you didnt mean it this way, but: nice and assertive are mutually exclusive?

I always assumed it was exclusive. Isn't it exclusive?

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[Liesl]

It's not. Assertiveness can exist in multiple forms.

[VH]

Assertive and Nice:

1. I saw a homeless guy holding a sign on the side of the road wearing nothing but a T-Shirt in below freezing wind -shivering with his teeth chattering. I parked my car right there in the intersection, got out, and gave him the coat I was wearing. He started to cry.

2. I once bought about fifty Valentines Day themed beanie baby sized stuffed puppies (at the Dollar Store), and handed them out to all the ladies in my office building.

3. I frequently go help at the local battered women's shelter, usually just doing clean up, handyman work, or helping the nuns with their chores.

I think it's easy for 8's to assume that Assertive and Nice can't mutually co-exist because when people assert on us, it's an act of war. I know more than a few Enneagram 3's (and even 2's) who have inadvertently bitten off more than they can chew by asserting into my personal space or placing demands on me. But, I've learned that they don't mean anything by it, and are often actually trying to help. Assertion can certainly be also nice.

[Liesl]

1. I saw a homeless guy holding a sign on the side of the road wearing nothing but a T-Shirt in below freezing wind -shivering with his teeth chattering. I parked my car right there in the intersection, got out, and gave him the coat I was wearing. He started to cry.

This just made my night better.

[niffer]

@VH

Hello. It appears I haven't posted in this thread before. *points to my enneagram type*

My two cents: I would say I think you are definitely an ENFJ, and most likely a type 8. As for having a 9 wing, I don't know. It is highly possible, and definitely possible for NFs to be type 8. I've read that many 8w9s are ENFJs.

Being "nice" isn't necessarily an indicator of being 8w9. When an enneagram 8 is a healthy individual, they display qualities of enneagram 2 "the helper".

I think a better gauge would be this: do you think at your core you are more "chilled out" and have "power in reserve", or are you more "hyper" and keep that power and energy out front on display most of the time? Because the latter is the impression I kind of get from you.

[VH]

Hello. It appears I haven't posted in this thread before. *points to my enneagram type*

Hello there fellow 8w9 sx/so *waves whole arm*

My two cents: I would say I think you are definitely an ENFJ,

Yeah, I am getting rather convinced that I am an ENFJ who has developed a very strong N, along with the ability to temporarily put my F aside if need be. I'd also like to think that compared to most ENFJ's my T is pretty well developed too, but then I know a few ENFJs who have really solid T.

I am prone to going into an INFJ mode when I need to withdraw from depression, stress, etc. which has caused me to develop my N and T functions, making me seem enough like an INFJ that I could pass for one at times.

and most likely a type 8. As for having a 9 wing, I don't know. It is highly possible, and definitely possible for NFs to be type 8. I've read that many 8w9s are ENFJs.

I had not read that, but of the ENFJs that are 8's, I would certainly think that they're more inclined toward the 9 wing. From what I've read, the clear majority of ENFJs are 2's. I'd also assume that a lot of the male ENFJs who are 2's are prone to stressing into an 8 mode, which could inflate the numbers.

But yes, I believe I am most likely an 8. My other tritypes are most likely 4 and 6, and I do fluctuate between them situationally.

Being "nice" isn't necessarily an indicator of being 8w9. When an enneagram 8 is a healthy individual, they display qualities of enneagram 2 "the helper".

Correct. 2's want to help. 9's just want harmony. If it is possible to have harmony without doing anything or helping anyone, 9's are perfectly happy. They don't have an urge to come up with how they could help someone like a 2 does. 9's are 'nice' because it helps create harmony, but it's a passive nice.

I think a better gauge would be this: do you think at your core you are more "chilled out" and have "power in reserve", or are you more "hyper" and keep that power and energy out front on display most of the time? Because the latter is the impression I kind of get from you.

I'm definitely a power in reserve person. I only put it on display when I need to, but I have no problem doing it. However, this is a learned skill. I used to be both powerful and reserved. It was really difficult for me to deliberately make waves and cause disruption to others when I was younger. It happened a lot by nature of the fact that I reflexively assert myself, but I always felt really bad about it when I realized I stepped on anyone's toes or caused disruption. I'm a very big fan of harmony. I've learned that someone has to step up and disrupt things for the greater good, and eventually got over my problem with it.

[VH]

I'm beginning to consider that I am (or was) an ENFJ 4, who is now (or can shift into) INFJ 8.

Thoughts?

[This]

I'm beginning to consider that I am (or was) an ENFJ 4, who is now (or can shift into) INFJ 8.

Thoughts?

What is it that makes you believe you were a 4?

[VH]

What is it that makes you believe you were a 4?

I don't believe I was. I am considering that I might have been.

This is based on interacting with some clear 4's, and having a lot in common with them. Not everything, but enough to consider it. Examples include a dark side that I can't put into words, a sensuality that can never be satisfied, a longing that can't be quenched, and as much as I hate to admit it an endless need for a soul mate.

Granted, I have a lot of 8 traits, but I've read that 4 and 8 are essentially the same type inverted. 4's turn it inward. 8's turn it outward. I can easily see both depending on how far I've been pushed.

[This]

I don't believe I was. I am considering that I might have been.

This is based on interacting with some clear 4's, and having a lot in common with them. Not everything, but enough to consider it. Examples include a dark side that I can't put into words, a sensuality that can never be satisfied, a longing that can't be quenched, and as much as I hate to admit it an endless need for a soul mate.

Granted, I have a lot of 8 traits, but I've read that 4 and 8 are essentially the same type inverted. 4's turn it inward. 8's turn it outward. I can easily see both depending on how far I've been pushed.

Hmmm, I'm not sure on type 4, It's one of the types that I've really read very little about 4s and 7s I don't know much about. I personally can relate to the insatiable longing for sensuality in fact I sort of had (have?) an addiction related to it. But I'm not sure if these things are enneagram related or perhaps just personal experience related.

[GYX_Kid]

I've been acting like somewhat of a 5w8 this past year, due to a lot of stress and dire action needing to be taken

[VH]

Hmmm, I'm not sure on type 4, It's one of the types that I've really read very little about 4s and 7s I don't know much about. I personally can relate to the insatiable longing for sensuality in fact I sort of had (have?) an addiction related to it. But I'm not sure if these things are enneagram related or perhaps just personal experience related.

Yeah, it's probably the sexual subtype rather than any given Enneatype.

[VH]

That about covers it.

[VH]

Also, this is a very good look at the core of 8 without the bravado and projection a lot of 8s put up with interviewers they don't trust. This woman might be one of the healthiest 8's I've ever seen. She's very self aware and self controlled. Kudos to you, lady, whoever you are.

[hush]

Kind of seems like there's an aggressive amount of posting in this thread compared to the other enneagram-related threads.

[niffer]

Kind of seems like there's an aggressive amount of posting in this thread compared to the other enneagram-related threads.

NO UR AGGRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[niffer]

That about covers it.

xD the fire effects on the video were hilarious

[hush]

NO UR AGGRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!1111

orly4.jpg

^-^

[VH]

xD the fire effects on the video were hilarious

I think the little treadmill animation nailed it.

[niffer]

Hi again @VH ~ I know this is an old thread, but I've seen that you've been around now and again recently. Your recent thread "What is an INFJ" caught my attention, and in skimming the enneagram section I decided to read through this thread thoroughly for the first time. I can say that, I feel like I've had a lot of similar experiences to you and feel the same way as you with a lot of what you've said here. Recently I've been leaning more towards being an ENFJ (from my original thoughts of being more ENFPish), and though I'm not 100% sure, that's one more thing that I'm able to relate to you about.

Here are some thoughts:

- I got into enneagram from quite a young age, like, when I was 12 years old, and the 8w9 profile was something that I felt I could relate to without a doubt for a long time. Recently, I've had more trouble being certain of it because of different tests giving me all sorts of differing results when I take them now, and from people giving me a variety of feedback.

- You've definitely always struck me as having a bit of an ENFJ or borderline ENFJ vibe.

- I think that people can get different results or can give off different impressions from what their "core" E type is for a few reasons. When it comes to E8, whose issues with anger and independence etc stemmed from early childhood experiences and development... well, any rational adult is going to learn to dilute their anger and to get over it eventually. To choose their battles. I think that if anyone who could be considered *distinctly* E8 in theory was rendered into a real life person, they'd basically be a freaking gorilla. I also agree with what you've said about the conflict that can come up between someone's inherent cognitive functions vs. their childhood development. For a long time when I was young, I had the hardest time coming to terms with my softer emotions and being vulnerable to others with them, and just to my femininity in general (I actually think that's why I looked like Ne+Fi for a long time rather than manifesting my Fe+Ni normally; Fe became convoluted because I looked down on emotional expression and vulnerability). I think that girls like me who may really at their core be E8s can be mistaken for E2s easily, or come to terms with being able to be vulnerable more quickly than E8 men can because society encourages it from them, and encourages E2 characteristics from females in general. Similarly, I think a lot of men who may be E2s may want to see themselves as E8s or express themselves in an E8 way, especially if they are an Fe user, because of societal gender roles. That may be something to think about. Another societal value that affects both genders is this weird idea of how important it is to have "leadership qualities"... I think that's an idea that a lot of schools and corporations try to push upon young people. That everyone needs to develop their "leadership qualities", God knows why. I think a lot of people who are of other enneagram types might want to focus on E8 aspects of themselves and believe that they are E8s for this reason.

- Like you, I feel that sx/so applies to me most definitely, more than any one E type does. But... I think that this sort of flavor points towards one being an E8.

- I've often tested as 9w8 or have been told by others that I might want to consider 9 as well. Often when people first meet me and try to describe me, they describe me as "extremely calm", sometimes stoic. However, when I compare myself to pure 9 types, in my opinion 9 people come across as distant and kept within themselves in a way that I will never be.


I'll answer these too.

You are driving in the middle of the night and it's lightly raining, there are no other cars on the road except the one in front of you by a few hundred yards (meters). Suddenly the car in front of you goes out of control, and rolls end over end. What would your initial gut response be and what would you do?

A close friend begins to try to push your buttons in a way that seems like a deliberate yet subtle attempt to be domineering and assert his dominance over you. What would your initial gut response be and what would you do?

You are at a bar when several women begin yelling at a friend of yours, and this rapidly escalates into a brawl that starts moving your way. What would your initial gut response be and what would you do?

1) Immediately pull over, get out and run to the car, calling 911. Free the person and help if I can.

2) I would initially feel a bit confused. I know that's not something normal for my close friends to do, so I would assume they're having a bad day or something's wrong. I would talk to them about whether or not they've been okay lately.

3) Go up to them and break it up; pull my friend out and shove the women away. Leave the scene with my friend. I am slightly taller and stronger than the average woman, and always have been compared to my friends and peers, and I have always felt a sort of desire to protect my female friends who were more significantly physically and emotionally vulnerable than I was when I was younger. It has always felt more paternal to me than maternal, especially when I was younger. Maybe you know what I mean, I've always been a fan of DBZ since I was a kid and I kind of wanted to be like Goku. I took up martial arts for a while because it looked so cool to me haha. I've toned this kind of tomboyishness down over the years because it's honestly not really necessary and I wanted to understand the feminine sides of other girls more deeply. Nowadays, I am very gentle, loving, and fluffy. I honestly think that a lot of this can be attributed to my discovering information about the enneagram and MBTI at a relatively young age. I was 12 when I was reading about how to develop myself as an enneagram 8. I have gone through periods in my life when destructiveness and explosive anger and violence were definitive parts of my emotional makeup due to my early experiences, and when I describe these times to people now, they find it hard to believe. And I'm sure when they picture it in their head they associate it with kind of like an anxiety or complex-induced hysteria (because I'm a woman) rather than something more like an almost sober red-blooded anger or rage.

Well, I guess I'm rambling now and am starting to lose my train of thought. I hope you're able to relate a bit to what I've talked about here or find it helpful in some way.

I don't think that E8s at their core are exactly "aggressive". That's just a coping mechanism for hiding what they really are. It's a habit. Or at least, that's how I feel it would be for my case, if I actually am an E8 that is. I believe that enneagram types actualized are not their habits; that the typical defining characteristics for all enneagram types are all actually coping mechanisms. It's like, when a fish struggles, you can see where they are in the water. But a fish swimming contentedly is hard to pin down.

Edit: Feeling the need to tag @TheDaringHatTrick here for some reason ~_~