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View Full Version : What do you think of S-types?



Quinlan
23-03-09, 11:09 PM
Be honest. :D

Xel'Karin
23-03-09, 11:12 PM
Super! Stupendous! Spectacular! Superb!

Xel'Karin
23-03-09, 11:14 PM
Savvy!

Quinlan
23-03-09, 11:36 PM
All of them?

Xel'Karin
23-03-09, 11:39 PM
If I didn't mean all of them I wouldn't have said them. :D
(I'm not gonna touch the other interpretation of your question).

IndigoSensor
23-03-09, 11:55 PM
My inital stigma about them is that they were closed minded, rule/controling, and boring. That has since changed, for the better! S's are quite alot of fun, and I am finding that a very large portion of my friends are S types, so I am more used to them then I expcted!

Wyote
23-03-09, 11:56 PM
I find their insights highly entertaining. SF's are easier for me to talk to while ST's typically have a vibe that tends to stress me out a bit.

IndigoSensor
23-03-09, 11:58 PM
I find their insights highly entertaining. SF's are easier for me to talk to while ST's typically have a vibe that tends to stress me out a bit.

I cant deal with SJ's that well though. They generally don't understand, or like my antics very much. Nor do I like there complex about "obeying social ettiqute". And god forbid you break any rules.

the
24-03-09, 12:48 AM
I think they are superior to everyone else.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 12:48 AM
Out of my large group of friends, I'm probably the only NT(Aside from my brother, whom I suspect to be ENTP). My best friend is an ESTP though. Him and I have had some awesome conversations and even better experiences together.

Most of the people I'm around are usually ESFP. I may not be able to get into deep conversations without them getting confused. It's all cool though. I enjoy the experiences I have and the conversations are usually funny. It's good stuff.

Duty
24-03-09, 02:01 AM
I honestly have to claim a biased view of sensors. I've met sensors I get along with, but I've been raised and have mostly dealt with SJs for my whole life. I find them to be unbearable and sometimes even suspect that they are the reason society is so screwed up (they just won't let go of their inane traditions and prejudices...look at Star Trek: TNG: it's chock full of intuitives and there isn't hardly a sensor on the show...and it's the ideal society).

I get along much better with SPs for sure though. I can appreciate ESFPs for who they are, and even grew up with one. ISTPs I can identify largely with, as I share all but the N/S. ESTPs can get on my nerves, but largely are tolerable to me. I've only met one ISFP ever, so I can't really comment much on them. The one I met was an emotional WRECK though...everything was out to get her in her mind.


I refuse to judge a person based purely on their type, but I'll admit that I'm leery around SJs.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 05:12 AM
I get along much better with SPs for sure though. I can appreciate ESFPs for who they are, and even grew up with one. ISTPs I can identify largely with, as I share all but the N/S. ESTPs can get on my nerves, but largely are tolerable to me. I've only met one ISFP ever, so I can't really comment much on them. The one I met was an emotional WRECK though...everything was out to get her in her mind.
Dude, I had the exact same experience. I dated an ISFP for several months. Good god, was that woman emotional. She had horrible anxiety and I literally stayed as far away from her as I could when she was menstruating. She'd get so emotional and cry for no reason.

I want my three months back.

I refuse to judge a person based purely on their type, but I'll admit that I'm leery around SJs.
I agree.
I think I'm about to take a shot at dating an ESFJ and see how that goes. Should be interesting. The girl is, like, the complete opposite of me but I find it so strongly attractive. She's neat, orderly, worries about how she looks, she's the freakin' definition of an ESFJ, in verbatum. I can't figure out why I find her so GODDAMN CUTE though.

Talk me out of this. I know it's going to end in flames. ;_;

Silently Honest
24-03-09, 05:42 AM
The same thing I think of N type, they're humans, and as such you shall all be judged equally, and my judgement is all humans are pathetic and a tad stupid, and need to be controlled by a higher power, and made to dance for that higher powers entertainment from time to time.

Lurker
24-03-09, 12:07 PM
Everyone is individual and my opinion of someone can only be based on how we interact, not by their type. That said I can struggle to connect well with SJs, one of the biggest things I'm concerned with is improving everything around me and being efficient, if there is a better, quicker more effective way of doing something I want to ask ‘why that isn't happening?’ even if the current system works, some of the SJs in my life insist on asking ‘why change things?’. I can't stand that.

There are SJs who I respect very much, two in particular who amaze me with their attitude to others and ability to get things done despite hardships, it's just that they are just so different to me that connecting on a deeper level is hard work.

You already know what I think of SP and in particular ISFPs :love:

Flavus Aquila
24-03-09, 04:14 PM
Everyone is individual and my opinion of someone can only be based on how we interact, not by their type. That said I can struggle to connect well with SJs, one of the biggest things I'm concerned with is improving everything around me and being efficient, if there is a better, quicker more effective way of doing something I want to ask ‘why that isn't happening?’ even if the current system works, some of the SJs in my life insist on asking ‘why change things?’. I can't stand that.

There are SJs who I respect very much, two in particular who amaze me with their attitude to others and ability to get things done despite hardships, it's just that they are just so different to me that connecting on a deeper level is hard work.


100% ditto

mia kulpah
24-03-09, 04:18 PM
I try not to have misconceptions based on type - I've seen too many good people get upset and angry because of type bias, and those kinds of emotions reinforce the "good type/bad type" arguments I hate so. Plus, people start thinking they're more intelligent/better if they're X type so they try to act like X type when they aren't.

But.

Some of the bigger misunderstandings and clashes I've had have either been with ENFP folks or S-folks. And I don't like being involved in an SJ-type argument because I can't wrap my own brain around their dogmatic fixation of needing to be right/doing things "right." I have issues with ESFJ females sometimes because they can get needy and loopy - and I can't meet the needs they apparently have.

But I've also enjoyed laughing with many Sensor folks. My mother is a strong Sensor and she's one of the most gifted and creative teachers I've ever seen. We take different approaches to things, but she knows how to motivate high school students more than any person I've ever known.

musicalpyramid
24-03-09, 06:17 PM
I agree.
I think I'm about to take a shot at dating an ESFJ and see how that goes. Should be interesting. The girl is, like, the complete opposite of me but I find it so strongly attractive. She's neat, orderly, worries about how she looks, she's the freakin' definition of an ESFJ, in verbatum. I can't figure out why I find her so GODDAMN CUTE though.

Talk me out of this. I know it's going to end in flames. ;_;

You and me both buddy, I am also in early stages of dating an ESFJ and also suspect that crashing and burning may be the end result.... However as you say they are so cute, I love that whole ''fussy, neat and tidy lets do things the right way'' attitude she has - she is completely the reverse of me, she acts the way i fear i should act to get by in society but never could to be happy accepting. Mostly I just roll my eyes and smile.

Generally she is optimistic and supportive and needy - and rightly or wrongly i actually kind of like her being needy - wanting approval and affection from me. Lets me do the infj 'protector' thing, basically. Sadly, however, we've never had a deep conversation and probably never will...

Duty
24-03-09, 06:22 PM
I think I'm about to take a shot at dating an ESFJ and see how that goes. Should be interesting. The girl is, like, the complete opposite of me but I find it so strongly attractive. She's neat, orderly, worries about how she looks, she's the freakin' definition of an ESFJ, in verbatum. I can't figure out why I find her so GODDAMN CUTE though.

Talk me out of this. I know it's going to end in flames. ;_;

The tragic hours of wasted conversation...wait, monologue from her, not conversation...about makeup, what her friend's dog did, etc should be enough of a deterrent.

VH
24-03-09, 07:04 PM
I'm lucky to have a rather sizable community of N types. In several dozen friends, I only have three close friends that are S types, an ISFP and two ISTPs. My mother is an ESFJ and my father is also an ISTP. Many of my co-workers are S types as well.

The several dozen N types that comprise my circle of friends seem rather evenly split across NT and NF. We all share a very clear sense that the rest of the world 'doesn't get us'. It wasn't until I discovered Myers Briggs that I had an explanation as to why the rest of the world couldn't see the things that we did. Until then, we were just different, high functioning gifted, etc.



S types in my opinion are...

Everywhere! It seems as if 90% of the population are S types. MBTI figures tend to agree.

Practical. They live in the 'real world'.

Surprisingly observant. They notice tangible things that N types often overlook. I have an ISTP friend who can spot four leaf clovers by walking past them, without even looking down. He does this with astonishing frequency. He'll abruptly stop moving. Back up. And then scan the ground until he finds it. I currently have one in my car that he plucked.

Empirical. If they can't interact with something via their five senses, they often assume it to be make believe and / or pointless. The ISTPs will discuss the inner workings of the mind and other abstract things, so long as there is a frame of reference with lots of assignable details. The rest of the S types I know seem to quickly jump to invalidating such subjects as if the mere possibility of them is annoying.

Suspicious. It takes my S type friends a long time to trust my intuition as implicitly as I do. They seem to have a strong need to protect their paradigm from the possibility of things they cannot percieve imperically. Even the ones who do trust my intuition don't seem to like doing so, and view it with an odd degree of suspicion that appears to be affable but waiting for it to fail so they can point it out and reclaim their paradigm.

I have a lot of trouble relating to most of the S types I meet because it seems like they don't have much capacity, or more specifically willingness to realize there is no box. I find myself being forced to stay within acceptable parameters of subject matter and conversational inflections in order to maintain a connection. For lack of a more respectful term, I feel like I have to dumb down to interact with most S types, or else they will assume that I'm stupid and check out of the conversation. Ironic, really. Granted, there are frequent exceptions to these behaviors but more often than not this has been my experience with S types. Because of this, I am usually less open to forming deeper friendships with most S types until they can prove themselves to be the exception to the norm.

In general (I wish I had a nicer way to put it) S types seem to be people who haven't figured out how to fully think, and because of this cannot grasp the fact that there could be more to thinking. It is as if they are missing a sense, and because they can't see, they refuse to accept the fact that others can. Yet, somehow S types often manage to be surprisingly sharp, unexpectedly smart, and remarkably on task despite these things.

VH
24-03-09, 07:08 PM
I think I'm about to take a shot at dating an ESFJ and see how that goes. Should be interesting. The girl is, like, the complete opposite of me but I find it so strongly attractive. She's neat, orderly, worries about how she looks, she's the freakin' definition of an ESFJ, in verbatum. I can't figure out why I find her so GODDAMN CUTE though.

Talk me out of this. I know it's going to end in flames. ;_;

I won't talk you out of it. I'll talk you into it.

ESFJs are VERY good matches for INTPs. You have all the same cognitive functions, just in different orders. You'll compliment each other very well, but also see where the other is coming from. Your strengths are at once shared and balancing. You're probably going to marry this girl.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 07:26 PM
I won't talk you out of it. I'll talk you into it.

ESFJs are VERY good matches for INTPs. You have all the same cognitive functions, just in different orders. You'll compliment each other very well, but also see where the other is coming from. Your strengths are at once shared and balancing. You're probably going to marry this girl.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. =P


The tragic hours of wasted conversation...wait, monologue from her, not conversation...about makeup, what her friend's dog did, etc should be enough of a deterrent.
That's actually what's making me doubt the whole thing.
I couldn't give a fuck less about the things around me. I've thought about just depriving myself and running away to spend time living on nothing. She's so materialistic, it baffles me. Her family is well-off and all that fun stuff.

I s'pose when I come to that crossroads, I'll make a decision. I know for a fact that to pursue what I'm going for, there's a good chance that I'm going to have to go it alone. Being with someone like that means forsaking my own quest.

'Specially if the girl won't let me drop acid. That'll be a deal-breaker right there.

VH
24-03-09, 07:32 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. =P

You have no idea how intense the attraction this girl is going to be for you, nor how perfectly designed her mind is to making you fall head over heels in love with her, without trying. If she's interested, and as an ESFJ she likely will be interested in an INTP, you are hers for the taking. ESFJs know what they want, and they get it.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 07:46 PM
You have no idea how intense the attraction this girl is going to be for you, nor how perfectly designed her mind is to making you fall head over heels in love with her, without trying. If she's interested, and as an ESFJ she likely will be interested in an INTP, you are hers for the taking. ESFJs know what they want, and they get it.
Actually, I have an idea. It isn't often that I'm that strongly attracted to someone's personality(Don't get me wrong, I love people). Usually, it's much more of a physical thing with women but I'm so enamored by how she acted, took control, was totally organized and her demeanor. Seriously. The girl carried toothpaste/a toothbrush in her bag and wore Stillettos. If that doesn't scream ESFJ, then I need to study Jung a bit deeper.

Another problem is that my best friend(ESTP) and brother(ENTP or ESTP, haven't gotten him to test yet) both fuckin' hate her.

IndigoSensor
24-03-09, 07:47 PM
Now that I think about it more. I think I really just have a problem with ESTJ's most of all. My dad is a bad one, so I think that is a major factor. I have had a few problems with others I have met as well. They always tell me how to do things (a MAJOR no-no with me), and won't hesitate to invalidate me in anyway, mostly when I am using Ni. I also have little care for social norms, which they hold up so highly, and it grates me that they just "go with it" because it has always been there. The other issue is the whole "why change?" thing. I also tend to do things to the point where I say "meh, good enough", and they usually work from there more often then that. Yet ESTJs will fight me tooth and nail until I do it their way, of course that never happens. I sooner walk away.

VH
24-03-09, 08:13 PM
Actually, I have an idea. It isn't often that I'm that strongly attracted to someone's personality(Don't get me wrong, I love people). Usually, it's much more of a physical thing with women but I'm so enamored by how she acted, took control, was totally organized and her demeanor. Seriously. The girl carried toothpaste/a toothbrush in her bag and wore Stillettos. If that doesn't scream ESFJ, then I need to study Jung a bit deeper.

Another problem is that my best friend(ESTP) and brother(ENTP or ESTP, haven't gotten him to test yet) both fuckin' hate her.

And the idea is?

Also, your friend and brother are going to have to get over it. ESFJs are a force of nature. They are who they are. If she makes you happy, they'll understand... eventually.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 08:28 PM
And the idea is?
That my attraction to her was immediate and forceful.
Damnit.


Also, your friend and brother are going to have to get over it. ESFJs are a force of nature. They are who they are. If she makes you happy, they'll understand... eventually.
I s'pose you're right but we'll see where things end up. I don't want to count me chickens before they hatch.

VH
24-03-09, 08:30 PM
I s'pose you're right but we'll see where things end up. I don't want to count me chickens before they hatch.

Very INTP of you.

You know how us INFJs like to count our chickens before the eggs are laid. ;-)

Duty
24-03-09, 08:52 PM
That my attraction to her was immediate and forceful.
Damnit.

Forgive me for not understanding, but all the ESFJs have an immediate and forceful repulsion to me...THEY'RE SO BORING AND WON'T SHUT UP.

Maybe this girl is different...idk.

Quinlan
24-03-09, 09:15 PM
Thanks everyone, very interesting so far.


If she's interested, and as an ESFJ she likely will be interested in an INTP, you are hers for the taking. ESFJs know what they want, and they get it.


You know how us INFJs like to count our chickens before the eggs are laid. ;-)

Hahaha! there is some gold in this thread! :)



Suspicious. It takes my S type friends a long time to trust my intuition as implicitly as I do. They seem to have a strong need to protect their paradigm from the possibility of things they cannot percieve imperically. Even the ones who do trust my intuition don't seem to like doing so, and view it with an odd degree of suspicion that appears to be affable but waiting for it to fail so they can point it out and reclaim their paradigm.

Of course they're suspicious, to them intuition looks like guessing and hunches, it is the only thing we can compare it to.


For lack of a more respectful term, I feel like I have to dumb down to interact with most S types, or else they will assume that I'm stupid and check out of the conversation. Ironic, really.

That is ironic! Completely different perspectives on what's dumb/stupid.


In general (I wish I had a nicer way to put it) S types seem to be people who haven't figured out how to fully think, and because of this cannot grasp the fact that there could be more to thinking. It is as if they are missing a sense, and because they can't see, they refuse to accept the fact that others can. Yet, somehow S types often manage to be surprisingly sharp, unexpectedly smart, and remarkably on task despite these things.

I think you're being unfair here, you're unnessesarily putting your way of thinking on a pedestal. They may not "fully think" in the same way that you do but that does not mean they're limited. From their perspective it probably seems that you don't know how to "fully think" and that you're missing most of your senses. You're operating in different worlds, once things go too far into N land an S will become uninterested because it all seems so irrelevant, and vice versa.


Now that I think about it more. I think I really just have a problem with ESTJ's most of all. My dad is a bad one, so I think that is a major factor. I have had a few problems with others I have met as well. They always tell me how to do things (a MAJOR no-no with me), and won't hesitate to invalidate me in anyway, mostly when I am using Ni. I also have little care for social norms, which they hold up so highly, and it grates me that they just "go with it" because it has always been there. The other issue is the whole "why change?" thing. I also tend to do things to the point where I say "meh, good enough", and they usually work from there more often then that. Yet ESTJs will fight me tooth and nail until I do it their way, of course that never happens. I sooner walk away.

My Grandad was an ESTJ, he was a pretty good guy but I always remember that he constantly commented on how quiet we were (introversion obviously), he made jokes about it but deep down I think it bothered him and he saw it as sort of an insult. He could never understand why we weren't just like him, and why we couldn't appreciate the same things that he did. I can't imagine how much of an enigma an N would be to them.

Duty
24-03-09, 09:57 PM
My Grandad was an ESTJ, he was a pretty good guy but I always remember that he constantly commented on how quiet we were (introversion obviously), he made jokes about it but deep down I think it bothered him and he saw it as sort of an insult. He could never understand why we weren't just like him, and why we couldn't appreciate the same things that he did. I can't imagine how much of an enigma an N would be to them.

I've noticed that more then any other type, ESTJs really don't understand the differences from them to others. I've been around quite a few, and they just don't understand introverts, intuitives, feelers or perceivers. Further, they really don't understand other thinkers if those thinkers are not Si oriented thinkers (compare past experience to this experience and make a decision based on that). Not to be prejudiced, but from my personal observations, ESTJs can easily be the most prejudiced type.

acd
24-03-09, 10:03 PM
Where is the superior 'N' bathroom only, please?
(Not.)
I just find some of these responses really arrogant.

slant
24-03-09, 10:18 PM
I haven't really interacted with any S types much.

The types I am surrounded with are ENFPs, which are very annoying to me. F types are really annoying. I annoy myself sometimes!

The only S I've ever encounter who I tested was an ESFJ who isn't that bad to hang out with. I like him because he doesn't make assumptions and bases everything on what he sees. What I don't like about him is his selection in partners and how the only thing he really cares about is what he can see and feel physically on a woman, and that a potential mate has the same favorite color as him. However, this could be due to the fact that he is sixteen.

mayflow
24-03-09, 10:22 PM
Where is the superior 'N' bathroom only, please?
(Not.)
I just find some of these responses really arrogant.

I think S types have stars on their bellies and N have none on thars...



Bellies With Stars

THE SNEETCHES
by Dr. Suess

Now the Star-bellied Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-bellied Sneetches had none upon thars.
The stars weren't so big; they were really quite small.
You would think such a thing wouldn't matter at all.
But because they had stars, all the Star-bellied Sneetches
would brag, "We're the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches."

With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they'd snort, "
We'll have nothing to do with the plain-bellied sort."
And whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
they'd hike right on past them without even talking.

When the Star-bellied children went out to play ball,
could the Plain-bellies join in their game? Not at all!
You could only play ball if your bellies had stars,
and the Plain-bellied children had none upon thars.

When the Star-bellied Sneetches had frankfurter roasts,
or picnics or parties or marshmallow toasts,
they never invited the Plain-bellied Sneetches.
Left them out cold in the dark of the beaches.
Kept them away; never let them come near,
and that's how they treated them year after year.

Then one day, it seems, while the Plain-bellied Sneetches
were moping, just moping alone on the beaches,
sitting there, wishing their bellies had stars,
up zipped a stranger in the strangest of cars.

"My friends, " he announced in a voice clear and keen,
"My name is Sylvester McMonkey McBean.
I've heard of your troubles; I've heard you're unhappy.
But I can fix that; I'm the fix-it-up chappie.
I've come here to help you; I have what you need.
My prices are low, and I work with great speed,
and my work is one hundred per cent guaranteed."

Then quickly, Sylvester McMonkey McBean
put together a very peculiar machine.
Then he said, "You want stars like a Star-bellied Sneetch?
My friends, you can have them . . . . for three dollars each.
Just hand me your money and climb on aboard."

They clambered inside and the big machine roared.
It bonked. It clonked. It jerked. It berked.
It bopped them around, but the thing really worked.
When the Plain-bellied Sneetches popped out, they had stars!
They actually did, they had stars upon thars!

Then they yelled at the ones who had stars from the start,
"We're exactly like you; you can't tell us apart.
We're all just the same now, you snooty old smarties.
Now we can come to your frankfurter parties!"

"Good grief!" groaned the one who had stars from the first.
"We're still the best Sneetches, and they are the worst.
But how in the world will we know," they all frowned,
"if which kind is what or the other way 'round?"

Then up stepped McBean with a very sly wink, and he said,
"Things are not quite as bad as you think.
You don't know who's who, that is perfectly true.
But come with me, friends, do you know what I'll do?
I'll make you again the best Sneetches on beaches,
and all it will cost you is ten dollars eaches.

Belly stars are no longer in style, " said McBean.
"What you need is a trip through my stars-off machine.
This wondrous contraption will take off your stars,
so you won't look like Sneetches who have them on thars."

That handy machine, working very precisely,
removed all the stars from their bellies quite nicely.
Then, with snoots in the air, they paraded about.
They opened their beaks and proceeded to shout,
"We now know who's who, and there isn't a doubt,
the best kind of Sneetches are Sneetches without."

Then, of course those with stars all got frightfully mad.
To be wearing a star now was frightfully bad.
Then, of course old Sylvester McMonkey McBean
invited them into his stars-off machine.
Then, of course from then on, you can probably guess,
things really got into a horrible mess.

All the rest of the day on those wild screaming beaches,
the Fix-it-up-Chappie was fixing up Sneetches.
Off again, on again, in again, out again,
through the machine and back round about again,
still paying money, still running through,
changing their stars every minute or two,
until neither the Plain- nor the Star-bellies knew
whether this one was that one or that one was this one
or which one was what one or what one was who!

Then, when every last cent of their money was spent,
the Fix-It-Up-Chappie packed up and he went.
And he laughed as he drove in his car up the beach,
"They never will learn; no, you can't teach a Sneetch!"

But McBean was quite wrong, I'm quite happy to say,
the Sneetches got quite a bit smarter that day.
That day, they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches,
and no kind of Sneetch is the BEST on the beaches.
That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars,
and whether they had one or not upon thars.

ps The N bathroom has had some issues since the S's were banned,
and the rest of us were too busy daydreaming to fix it.
Anyways, as long as no one is looking we can always go outside...

acd
24-03-09, 10:30 PM
Profound, as always, and quoting Dr. Seuss! Nice!

Silently Honest
24-03-09, 10:50 PM
Where is the superior 'N' bathroom only, please?
(Not.)
I just find some of these responses really arrogant.

You'll find this a lot on type forums.

Duty
24-03-09, 11:21 PM
Where is the superior 'N' bathroom only, please?
(Not.)
I just find some of these responses really arrogant.

Ok, what is good about being an S?

Silently Honest
24-03-09, 11:49 PM
Chances of being removed from reality drop dramatically.

Duty
24-03-09, 11:50 PM
Chances of being removed from reality drop dramatically.

And chances of surpassing it/progressing understanding of it drop dramatically too.

PsilocinProject
24-03-09, 11:50 PM
Chances of being removed from reality drop dramatically.
IMO, the chances of being removed from reality, at one point or another, is 100% for everyone.

shannishannon
24-03-09, 11:53 PM
Am engaged to an ISTj.
He is the rock holding my kite string to the ground-(got THAT expression off this or that forum.)
He always has the right tool for the job, where I will improvise.
He plans for everything. Likes his routine and schedule.

Thinking about it, though, all the men I have been in LTR
seem to have been ST. I seem to be a magnet for this type.

Silently Honest
25-03-09, 12:04 AM
And chances of surpassing it/progressing understanding of it drop dramatically too.
That has less to do with being an S and more to do with acceptance, it can be argued that SJ's are less likely to accept something unless written in stone for them. SPs, are a different beast all together, and shouldn't be jumbled in together with SJs at any point, when you ask what's so good about being an S, you make the mistake of assuming all of them are one in the same which isn't the case at all. But something that the all S's do share is thriving in the here and now. Which was your question, wasn't it? What's so good about S's.

IMO, the chances of being removed from reality, at one point or another, is 100% for everyone.
IMO, S's can be just abstract as N's can but have little interest in being so, just like I can become an excellent baseball player, but have little interest in doing so.

Also, IMO chickens are the most majestic of all the birds.

IMO, IMO means subjective statement that has no relevance to the person you're speaking to unless they asked for it.

mayflow
25-03-09, 12:06 AM
Chances of being removed from reality drop dramatically.

I thought all minds are free to create their own realities?

Quinlan
25-03-09, 12:09 AM
SH nailed it.

Trying to decide which is "better", is stupid, you can't possibly be impartial, you're basically assessing your own shadow, the weakest parts of yourself of course it's going to look inferior.

Duty
25-03-09, 12:13 AM
SH nailed it.

Trying to decide which is "better", is stupid, you can't possibly be impartial, you're basically assessing your own shadow, the weakest parts of yourself of course it's going to look inferior.

I think the mistake was that we gave an honest opinion of our experiences with S's, and how we can be annoyed at some of their natural weaknesses, and the others turned that into us being judgmental and hateful...which isn't true.

Xel'Karin
25-03-09, 12:14 AM
Also, IMO chickens are the most majestic of all the birds.

They may have been once (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Junglefowl)... we took the life out of them. /digression

Silently Honest
25-03-09, 12:19 AM
I think the mistake was that we gave an honest opinion of our experiences with S's, and how we can be annoyed at some of their natural weaknesses, and the others turned that into us being judgmental and hateful...which isn't true.

I'll give you that, this is true.

mayflow
25-03-09, 12:20 AM
SH nailed it.

Trying to decide which is "better", is stupid, you can't possibly be impartial, you're basically assessing your own shadow, the weakest parts of yourself of course it's going to look inferior.

I disagree completely with this. Just because I normally prefer the INFP doesn't mean I think my complementory aspects are lacking or inferior at all. I can use sensing and thinking and I can be extroverted ad I can trust my judgements as well, and just because a vehicle isn't always driven at 100+ miles an hour doesn't mean it can't do it when you want it too. I do NOT think our complemetory sides are inferior just because they are not ALWAYS our favorites to use. So this also means that if you think your type is superior or inferior, you are just thinking about an aspect of yourself that way, and that doesn't make any sense!

Quinlan
25-03-09, 12:20 AM
I think the mistake was that we gave an honest opinion of our experiences with S's, and how we can be annoyed at some of their natural weaknesses, and the others turned that into us being judgmental and hateful...which isn't true.

Which I appreciate, I wouldn't want people to refrain from commenting or sugarcoat anything for fear of offending or starting a shitfight. I find it interesting to have these things out in the open, it is a good way to improve our understanding of the other.

Quinlan
25-03-09, 12:23 AM
So this also means that if you think your type is superior or inferior, you are just thinking about an aspect of yourself that way, and that doesn't make any sense!

That is exactly what I meant. :D

Duty
25-03-09, 12:23 AM
Which I appreciate, I wouldn't want people to refrain from commenting or sugarcoat anything for fear of offending or starting a shitfight. I find it interesting to have these things out in the open, it is a good way to improve our understanding of the other.

Sure, it's open and honest, and can be appreciated. It was just misinterpreted by others as spiteful.

PsilocinProject
25-03-09, 12:27 AM
IMO, S's can be just abstract as N's can but have little interest in being so, just like I can become an excellent baseball player, but have little interest in doing so.

Also, IMO chickens are the most majestic of all the birds.

IMO, IMO means subjective statement that has no relevance to the person you're speaking to unless they asked for it.
I was actually referring to death.
We're all going to be plucked from this reality, whether we like it or not. And, as the anecdote goes, Diogenes searched for Alexander's father's bones but could not distinguish them from the bones of slaves. :3

Silently Honest
25-03-09, 12:30 AM
Doh!

Xel'Karin
25-03-09, 12:34 AM
I was actually referring to death.
We're all going to be plucked from this reality, whether we like it or not. And, as the anecdote goes, Diogenes searched for Alexander's father's bones but could not distinguish them from the bones of slaves. :3

Yes, but taking into account the average lifespan of a human being, I'm sure you'll find that more N's step into heavy traffic un-awares than S's. Untimely demise.

Xel'Karin
25-03-09, 12:37 AM
... or should I say the scattering of a center. =p

acd
25-03-09, 12:41 AM
Ok, what is good about being an S?
I'm sure my answer will come off as simplistic, but to keep it concise I'll just say: They're different from 'N's.

PsilocinProject
25-03-09, 12:42 AM
Yes, but taking into account the average lifespan of a human being, I'm sure you'll find that more N's step into heavy traffic un-awares than S's. Untimely demise.
And lefties have a higher chance of dying in a gardening accident.

Your point is?

Xel'Karin
25-03-09, 12:45 AM
Your point is?

They should use a left-handed trowel.

PsilocinProject
25-03-09, 12:46 AM
I was thinking "Learn to use their right hand" but I guess that works too.

Xel'Karin
25-03-09, 12:50 AM
I think it's best to work with people's strengths.

PsilocinProject
25-03-09, 12:52 AM
I think it's best to apply peoples' strengths to concentrate on their weaknesses.

candaylandjoe
26-03-09, 01:32 AM
When I'm feeling down, I just imagine that I'm Charlton Heston taking on the apes. Heroes always win.

Xel'Karin
26-03-09, 07:06 AM
I think it's best to apply peoples' strengths to concentrate on their weaknesses.

Actually it would depend on the situation. You can't really demand left-handed streets to cross.

VH
27-03-09, 02:45 PM
I meant no more disrespect than I actually have for S types. Honesty was requested. Good, bad, or indifferent, the truth is the truth.

However, in my own offense, I have to make an elitist clarification. I have a very strong S function. It is the last function that I use, but it is stronger than most of the S types that I encounter. When I say that most S types seem to be 'unable to fully think', I am stating my perspective of being able to understand how they are coming to their conclusions, but feeling that I am leaving them behind when they are unable to understand mine. My close S type friends have rather strong N functions. Though they prefer to use their N functions after their S functions, they can understand why I think the way that I do. We respect each other's differences because we understand them, even if we don't share the preference for them.

I need to feel as if someone understands what I am expressing in order to feel a true connection with them.

Most of the S types I have met cannot understand my N deductions. While I am able to understand theirs, this leaves me feeling as if I cannot be fully understood, and therefore invalidates the possibility of true mutual respect.

However, most of the N types I have met are decidedly lacking in their S functions. I can fully understand how S types with weak N would assume that my deductions were as baseless as the N types they've encountered because from their perspective it looks like I'm going off in those directions. These N types are sometimes difficult for me to deal with from time to time, and I can certainly see the annoyance they can bring the S types, because they annoy me when they can't keep up with my S function. I'm just more forgiving of Ns than Ss, because my focus is on N deductions, but that only means I give them a little more slack, not carte blanche.

Personally, and without placing more value on either, I am less distracted by N types who can't keep up with my S than S types who can't keep up with my N. This is a personal perspective, not a statement of fact. When I am interacting with Ns with weak S, I find myself having to accommodate much less often than with Ss with weak N.

Do I care about anyone less because they can't keep up with my thought process? Of course not.

Do I respect anyone less as a human being because they cannot understand my N or S perceptions? Absolutely not.

Do I personally feel as if someone is unable to connect with me because they can't understand me? Quite often, yes.

This is my issue, not theirs. To explain, let me drop into an analogy... Expecting someone to keep up with me who simply cannot would be like expecting a couch potato to run 4 miles cross country with me and keep up. I have friends who can run with me, and even out run me. The world is full of people who I cannot keep up with. But that doesn't change the fact that I can outrun most people in this analogy. I don't ask couch potatoes to run, and get frustrated when they insist that I'm doing it wrong when I leave them behind. The S types don't want to go cross country because they can't see the benefits of working all of their muscle groups by being forced to react to variable terrain. They need a stable track. The N types don't want to run 4 miles because they can't see the value in pure cardio exercise. It's too far in one direction and bores them.

But, I don't hold it against either of them. Sometimes I have to walk with them drop my pace, stop and let them catch their breath. At that point, it's not about me, its about them. I often try to encourage them to increase their pace, but there is no real benefit for me in that workout. If I have to run on a track to accommodate my S types, I get very bored. If I have to run 2 miles cross country to accommodate my N types, I don't feel like it was as much of a work out, but at least I wasn't bored. However, I choose my running partners based on their ability to be challenged by running at a pace and on a course that challenges me. Sometimes I have the advantage of a running partner who does for me what I do for couch potatoes, but such a person is not going to be challenged by my pace and therefore not someone I can feel a bond with while I run.

Therefore, I do hold a little disrespect for couch potatoes in this analogy, but I do not blame them or judge them for it.

I know people who can run marathons on a track, but become hostile when I mention going cross country. This is very annoying to me, because these people won't even try running cross country. Most of their argument is based on the fact that the cross country runners they know don't even run, and only go a mile or so, and it's just dumb because the only thing that matters to them is a good cardio workout. Meanwhile, I share the lack of interest in going around a track over and over and over that my fellow cross country walkers have, but I can certainly see the merit in distance running at a strong pace and am willing to stay on a track from time to time to gain that benefit. If I am going to have to run at a pace that won't challenge me, I'd rather walk cross country than on a track. It is still annoying to have to ruin my own work out, but I can accept the surroundings better when I have to drop back to accommodate my cross country N types.

Ultimately, my goal is to constantly improve my cross country distance, time, and course difficulty. I'll focus on my cross country, but distance and time are a close second for me. For my S type peers, distance and time are the most important, but they see the reactive value of cross country as a close second. Together we challenge each other to improve in the areas we lack. This is the most beneficial relationship of Ns and Ss. The problem is, few Ns or Ss are capable of a good cross country pace, and most Ss won't even consider cross country. This leaves me with very few peers, and even my S peers would rather run on a static obstacle course track if they had to choose. Therefore, my core of true peers are cross country runners first and focus on distance and speed second, better known as N types with strong S functions, with a few S types with strong N functions that enjoy running with us as cross training. Because of this, we'll sometimes go run their static obstacle course and cross train with them.

Flavus Aquila
28-03-09, 11:03 AM
So what your saying is that you can understand their point of view and value it, but S types can seldom reciprocate:

What's good about S types: they are good at doing things that N types aren't - society probably couldn't physically function anywhere nearly as well as it does without S types.

What's bad about S types: they don't seem to value what N types are good at nearly as much as N types can value what S types are good at.

In general: N types give give society a vision; S types build it.

In particular: N types know they need S types; S types don't need N types, as far as they are concerned.

musttry
28-03-09, 02:54 PM
The N types don't want to run 4 miles because they can't see the value in pure cardio exercise.

I realize that this is an analogy but, Von Hase, you're on! I haven't run any cross-country but I've done a 20K in 1:42.

I think that a lot of Ns would benefit from physical activity to get them out of their egocentrical intuiting. Physical activity is a great way to connect to the world. In fact, I almost feel like going for a run right now!

mattysly
02-04-09, 10:55 AM
I feel that respect of other people is vitally important whether they are N or S. However, I have to say that I know a few ESTPs and ESFPs and for a long time I struggled to understand why they wanted to change me. I was up for it because I wanted to self improve and I was probably quite innocent.

But with discovering personality typing I've realised that they were actually quite threatened by me and so manipulated my feeling of insecurity. While I was upset when I figured this all out, I realised that that those people can only do what they're temperament dictates them to do. I have empathy for these people but I've realised I can't be with them for too long.... soo draining :p.

I do know quite a few ISFJs (including both my parents) and feel comfortable with them. I have talked to them about iNtuitive topics which they understand but there comes a point where they return to talking about everyday, concrete topics.

I think that you can be Sensory and still be great person and I hope to meet other great Sensors but so far I've had issues with wanting to and trying to stay interested in what Ss have to say.

VH
02-04-09, 02:54 PM
I realize that this is an analogy but, Von Hase, you're on! I haven't run any cross-country but I've done a 20K in 1:42.


Nice! I usually run 4 miles (a little less than 7k, I think) a day in 0:40-0:44. I did 11 miles a few months back in 1:45. (I think that's about 18k?)

aeon
02-04-09, 03:57 PM
Be honest. :D

They are gifted in ways that are different than the ways I am gifted, and if I am willing to open myself and be receptive, there exists the opportunity to be shown other aspects of what it is to be human.


Namaste,
Ian

gloomy-optimist
02-04-09, 05:02 PM
I get along pretty good with SP types, and I probably admire them more than I do any other group of types (although I still tend to get along "better" with N types, since they're more apt to understand me). I get along with SJs least of all, especially ESxJ's, although that is not to say I dislike them or don't get along with them at all. I simply have the most trouble connecting to them, and they have the most difficulty in understanding me. ESTJs are among the hardest for me to deal with.

Lucifer
14-04-09, 07:34 AM
When sensors are at their best there really great. But I don't understand them

When sensors are at their worst the make me want to do some heavy duty sensorside. And I don't understand them on top of that.

When intuitives are at their best they are really great, plus we understand each other

When intuitives are at their worst they can be pathetic nightmares, but still we understand each other.

Hence the bias.

It is nice to feel understood when the majority of the population doesn't get you, and many of them don't feel like they need to. It can be lonely when people expect you to conform to their perspective.


I like sensors because they bring out my sensing side, it is a pleasant relief. I have many friends who are sensors and I like them a lot.

But still there is nothing like a nice warm cup of understanding of the alienation you sometimes go through when your in the minority.

steerthestars
16-04-09, 02:53 AM
S's are boring, unimaginative and conservative. Their purpose in life is doing monotonous, manual or precision-defined labour in order to free up time for Intuitive types to think and dream.

gloomy-optimist
16-04-09, 03:18 AM
Ouch, that's harsh :B

Quinlan
16-04-09, 03:27 AM
S's are boring, unimaginative and conservative. Their purpose in life is doing monotonous, manual or precision-defined labour in order to free up time for Intuitive types to think and dream.


...and it's obvious you've been dreaming a lot!

steerthestars
16-04-09, 03:37 AM
...and it's obvious you've been dreaming a lot!

Oh, but I have. :)

And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

Lucifer
16-04-09, 03:39 AM
Oh, but I have. :)

And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

:popcorn:

Quinlan
16-04-09, 03:43 AM
Oh, but I have. :)

And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

Are you serious?

If not- :thumb:

If so- WTF?!?:doh:

Silently Honest
16-04-09, 03:48 AM
S's are boring, unimaginative and conservative

The most liberal people I know are SPs. Also boring is a relative term like beauty. I have fun with S's when we're out on the front porch, they're shitfaced and talking about life.

I have fun with S's at the gym. They're not boring, you think they're boring cause they do nothing that interest you personally.

And for the ISFP thing, they have intuition, there sensing has higher priority so they are more quick to produce art, in fact I'd sooner trust an ISP to produce a work of beauty then any INxEN.

mia kulpah
16-04-09, 03:52 AM
S's are boring, unimaginative and conservative. Their purpose in life is doing monotonous, manual or precision-defined labour in order to free up time for Intuitive types to think and dream.


Yeaaah. That wasn't necessary.

INTJs don't *have* to be assholes...they really don't.

Quinlan
16-04-09, 03:52 AM
Tertiary processes are often used in creativity and the ISFPs tertiary process is....... tada! Ni.

Lucifer
16-04-09, 03:58 AM
Oh, but I have. :)

And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

Well you can say the same thing in reverse.

Like how are your supposed to be a good artist if you can't draw realistically.

TheLastMohican
16-04-09, 04:03 AM
And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

This:

Tertiary processes are often used in creativity and the ISFPs tertiary process is....... tada! Ni.

And I'll add that imagination is not the only important part of the artistic process. ISFPs tend to be good artists because they can appreciate art (with Se) as well as conjure it up (with Ni). It's great to be able to create art, but it's important to know whether it's any good (at least somewhat obectively, not just because your ego would like to believe that it is). This is something that Si is not good at, so SJ types tend not to be good artists, but better at math, logic and handling data.

IndigoSensor
16-04-09, 04:06 AM
Hmm that would explain then why I am good at ceramics, and 3D art, but not painting and such. Seeing as Ti is my teritary process. My teacher in highschool always told me that I have a very distince, and "technical" style and apperance to my work. :tongue1:

acd
16-04-09, 05:51 AM
S's are boring, unimaginative and conservative. Their purpose in life is doing monotonous, manual or precision-defined labour in order to free up time for Intuitive types to think and dream.
Generalizations are boring and unimaginative, not to mention monotonous and based entirely on an "inside the box" mode of thinking..

::Yanks N card away::
Juuuuust kiddin'
(or am I??)

Flavus Aquila
16-04-09, 12:14 PM
Oh, but I have. :)

And by the way, if the ISFP is an "artist," then why aren't they Intuitive? Wouldn't you be a better artist if you had a dominant imagination?

I am guessing that sensors would be better artists than intuits in certain styles.

I suspect that realism is the product of mostly sensor types.

Australian landscape
http://australia.corrupt.org/images/macedon_ranges_1874.jpg

Quinlan
16-04-09, 10:29 PM
Yeah I reckon realism would get more thumbs up from Sensors than the more abstract styles, too abstract can just frustrate me.

FiNiTe
18-04-09, 10:32 AM
ISs are awesome. ESs are okay in small amounts, but I really don't talk to them more than I have to.

Jana
18-04-09, 11:24 PM
I like them actually, they fascinate me, ST's specially. But, sometimes it is hard to speak with them. Everything is good as long as I speak about something practical, for example, job, plans for meeting, cooking, problem that they can solve. But, if I say something about what I feel (sadness, love ...)and it is not so common, they usually disappear or they say something like: "Oh, I see...".


Is it just me:m200: or ...?

Liv
19-04-09, 02:17 AM
my sister is esfj,we get on great most of the time.her emotions show on her face so shes like an open book the whole time.she can tune out whenever she wants which is both brilliant(when you just need to escape the brain melt)and awful(when she pretends if she doesnt face a problem it will just go away).She worries a lot less than i do,is popular and friendly yet still cares deeply about those she loves.She is anything but fake which is a fantastic quality.
her bf is esfp and dead on.sound,funny,generous,unapplied lazy but helpful.

my most intimate relationship with an s type was with my ex,also an esfp, stand up comedian,born performer!hugely extraverted and popular yet caring and loving out of the spot light.suffered from ocd and was over dependent on needing the love and approval of everyone,to the point it had a huge detrimental effect on our relationship.never made a plan,happy go lucky.seriously intelligent,creative and talented.intoxicating and exciting.impulsive.complete nutter.infuriating and self centered.So much FUN to be around.

so drive me nuts but i love them anyway :D

poetrygirl
19-04-09, 02:39 PM
S types are ok with me; I like them. And I agree I think they can make really good artist particularly the SF's because their probably more patient with the finer details and may notice them more in their object (or person) that their drawing. I get really impatient with it I just want an outline and to be done with it. I think it's really great that sensors are able to appreaciate the beauty of the design that's around them rather then having to turn it into something metaphorical or abstract which is what I do constantly. It's a challange for me to just sit back and take in everything. Generally though I find I have a hard time connecting with them on a deeper level so as it turns out most of my closer friends are N's. I stay on good terms with them though. It's not that I haven't tried to form deep relationships in the past. It just that it always feels like their living in another world, (probably "reality" where ever that strange place is) I guess I'll do anything to avoid conflict; which in someways it's good ,but has also been a detriment to me from learning from someone who can see things in a light different then what I'm usually comfortable with.

rainrise
10-05-09, 06:45 PM
it's not that i don't understand where SJs and SPs are coming from because in the end i do respect them for their qualities that are less dominant in myself, however the reason i have a hard time with them is because i take them to be intuitives without realizing then feel let down when i don't see what i want to find. for instance, in the past i i've constantly probed my ISFP friend for abstract poetry filled with extractions derived from emotions/experiences wherein i was instead left to find writing that enveloped concrete beauty and imagination expanded on real pleasures. it was only after i found mbti that i began to see that she was an ISFP and understand her perspective a little better.
i guess it all boils down to a shift in perspective through less used functions to understand and communicate with S types. it's hard and most times it feels out of my comfort zone when doing so, especially when i'm the only one compensating; when the S type doesn't try to understand my N.

Julia
10-05-09, 07:46 PM
Generalizations are boring and unimaginative, not to mention monotonous and based entirely on an "inside the box" mode of thinking..

::Yanks N card away::
Juuuuust kiddin'
(or am I??)
That was pretty funny and sometimes that I wonder about that. When people get dogmatic about type and form hard boundaries and proceed without much analysis or nuance, it does seem like they are doing the exact thing they accuse Sensors of doing. I'm not trying to focus in on the post you responded to because it is something that occurs on a much larger scale. When people do that I often wonder if they really are iNtuitives, but then I realize that means I am placing a negative judgment on Sensors for making that assumption. There are exceptions to this, but i think there is some kind of distinction between people who simply want to reject dogmatism and tradition, and people who are more extreme cases of iNtuitives who are abstract to a more noticeable extreme. There is a difference between rejecting the negative stereotypes of one category and possessing the attributes of another.

I find it difficult to connect with most anyone on a deep level. I try to adapt to whomever I'm with, so I mostly just see Sensors as more people. When involved in a creative project with Sensors, I am quite grateful for their attention to detail and amazing proof reading skills and ability to zero in on every conceivable impracticality that can result from an application of a design. It fills in for my weaker areas and so I find it useful and important.

The folks I struggle with the most are the highly image conscious which identify as either S or N. My main problem is that they tend to judge me harshly. I think the problem is that they naturally divide the actual self with the presented self and I try to make the two cohesive, so the misunderstandings are significant.