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serenesam
22-07-11, 02:53 PM
When I was in my final year in college, I graduated with a major in psychology and a minor in business management. As I look back, I sort of wished I never minored in business management. Virtually everything I learned in the school of business tends to differ and even contradicted from what I was learning in psychology. In the school of business, I learned that globalization is such a wonderful thing from my marketing professor. I learned that the gap between the rich and the poor is not widening from my business ethics professor. I learned that the ultimate goal in the organization is profit maximization. I learned that Warren Buffet was such an intelligent man who was rejected to Harvard University because he was too young. There was a lot of glory given to the study of Warren Buffet. Who would have known that a year later, I was watching the Keiser Report and Max Keiser was talking about the unethical practices of Warren Buffet. Perhaps the

Sriracha
22-07-11, 03:16 PM
An interesting read! I can relate somewhat to what you are saying. I earned my B.S. in Human Services, so the "Business Admin" part of this major centers on nonprofit organizations, business management and grant writing. I thoroughly enjoyed the students within my major, they were deep and enriching. We had to complete many projects that included introspection of our lives (training ground for analyzing crisis and solution.)

I abhorred the business aspect of the major. Perhaps that is because it requires "Thinking" vs. "Feeling." It did not come naturally to me. Between the two worlds was a high sense of how politics correlates to your major. Did you also find this to be true?

Nixie
22-07-11, 03:19 PM
LOL
Did you ever think that just because a system of thought wasn't for you doesn't mean that there isn't value in it? I majored in business and it is contrary to all the beliefs and values I hold as a Native person. However, I am more than used to filtering crap since I live within a culture that is vastly different from my own everyday. Education is education and knowledge is usually not a waste. Appreciate the lessons, if only to learn what you shouldn't be doing.

serenesam
22-07-11, 03:25 PM
An interesting read! I can relate somewhat to what you are saying. I earned my B.S. in Human Services, so the "Business Admin" part of this major centers on nonprofit organizations, business management and grant writing. I thoroughly enjoyed the students within my major, they were deep and enriching. We had to complete many projects that included introspection of our lives (training ground for analyzing crisis and solution.)

Interesting, business management seems to be included in the many areas of study. From what I recall, it is almost exactly identical to industrial and organizational psychology and human resources. Many of the students I knew in psychology minored in marketing instead (I guess they assumed it was related to their major which it was but I actually thought management was more related to psychology).


I abhorred the business aspect of the major. Perhaps that is because it requires "Thinking" vs. "Feeling." It did not come naturally to me. Between the two worlds was a high sense of how politics correlates to your major. Did you also find this to be true?

Yes, it just seemed that a political mindset was far more necessary and significant than even societal, social, or economic concerns.

not sure
22-07-11, 03:51 PM
The number one reason not to major in either psychology or business administration is that those degrees are a dime a dozen, at least here they are. You might as well have stuck with your high school qualifications.

serenesam
22-07-11, 04:27 PM
The number one reason not to major in either psychology or business administration is that those degrees are a dime a dozen, at least here they are. You might as well have stuck with your high school qualifications.

Perhaps you are right as there are 5,000 janitors with Phds in the USA: http://gizmodo.com/5671062/there-are-5000-janitors-in-the-us-with-phds

This
22-07-11, 05:21 PM
The number one reason not to major in either psychology or business administration is that those degrees are a dime a dozen, at least here they are. You might as well have stuck with your high school qualifications.

Perhaps, to be honest though I would imagine business classes are more about education than a piece of paper. I had to do a lot of reading and figuring stuff out to find out how to even start my business because I did never go to business school. I imagine doing so would have made things easier since I had to figure out what legally needed to be done and how to pay my taxes on my own rather than having some direction.

not sure
22-07-11, 05:25 PM
Perhaps, to be honest though I would imagine business classes are more about education than a piece of paper. I had to do a lot of reading and figuring stuff out to find out how to even start my business because I did never go to business school. I imagine doing so would have made things easier since I had to figure out what legally needed to be done and how to pay my taxes on my own rather than having some direction.

I would bet you Sali that you learned more on your own than you would have in uni.

gps
22-07-11, 07:40 PM
When I was in my final year in college, I graduated with a major in psychology and a minor in business management.
As I look back, I sort of wished I never minored in business management.
Virtually everything I learned in the school of business tends to differ and even contradicted from what I was learning in psychology.


I'm empathize, my friend.
I never met an MBA I didn't dislike.
For the purposes of this you've outed yourself as more of a humanist than a profits-maximizing negative-value-added MBA.

The vast majority of the work-for-hire I've done to date have been involved engineering, designing, creating, producing.
Engineers are ALWAYS up against MBAs and been counters (EG Accountants).
In my first job out of college a fellow engineer posed the question, "What's the difference between a been counter and an Engineer?"
After a pregnant pause he told me that answer, "A bean counter knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing; an Engineer knows the value of everything and the cost of nothing."
MBAs seem closer to the bean counter than the Engineer; they know costs but not the values and who values the goods and services having associated costs, for the most part, they regard the personal, subjective values of others irrelevant distractions vis-a-vis the reductionist value of the bottom lines of their profits and losses spreadsheets.

If I wanted to dissuade another such as yourself from pissing away precious time with `earning' and MBA I'd present the following:

Want to THINK like an MBA without pissing away a thousand hours of your life and paying someone for the privilege?
If so, just spend a half hour with Bessy the Cow (http://www.ehow.com/info_8409166_ladder-abstraction.html) as seen from the various Points of View offered by rungs on an Abstraction Ladder (http://www.rijnlandmodel.nl/english/general_semantics/abstraction_ladder.htm) and you'll be the wiser for your efforts.

If you enjoy turning living `things' -- People, animals, plants ... the whole biosphere -- into an abstraction, such as `human resource', `livestock', or `asset' for fun and profit regardless of consequences in terms of pain, suffering, degradation of the environment, or exporting of the jobs of your countrymen elsewhere then sign up for that MBA program NOW.
Avoid the rush!
Sublimate your sociopathy.
Globalize your apathy for your fellow man, increase your value added to those who would use you as a tool for amassing corporate wealth as a means of amassing their personal wealth, status, and standing.

I've yet to meet an MBA who didn't abstract would-be individuals into production units thought of as `human resources' and wasn't ready willing and able to prostitute their talents for `the man', the CEO, whoever would pay them Judas money to `manage' and betray others in the name of professionalism and profits.

If INFPs make the best psychotherapists and we place them at one end of a spectrum I'd place xxxJ types with MBA degrees at the other.
MBAs induce psychological suffering pursuant to maximizing corporate profits and/or personal bonuses.
Those who value the well-being of others and endeavor to restore it when downgraded or lost are provided work by MBAs the way toxic cleanup workers make money off polluters.

Bessie the Cow, Gary the Plumber, Bob the mechanic, and John Q. Public are all `human' -- by lip service -- renewable resources, chattel, and livestock vis-a-vis the high and lofty rungs on the abstraction ladder which MBAs use as a vantage points.

Not that I'm generalizing or painting with a broad brush, mind you.
It's just that those with MBA degrees which don't act-as-if portrayed remain unemployed as a tool for creating wealth, amassing obscenely large mounds of beans, prostituting talents, etc. etc.

Just an opinion, FWIW.

Jill Hives
22-07-11, 08:27 PM
Couldn't be as bad as majoring in Fine Arts. :P

darth_tater
22-07-11, 10:23 PM
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9711/liberalartstshirt.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/liberalartstshirt.jpg/)

Feelings
23-07-11, 12:30 AM
Lawlsy. Fun thread. I has business degree ahuhuhu. And I ponder the same shit about humanity and ethics.

Get your facts str8 son. Business, per se, is not bad and study of it is not fruitless. The entire fucking world runs on business. Try finding a job in a non-business environment. You're limited to government jobs, or not-for-profits. But even those organizations have a business side driving them, and they play by many of the same rules.

It is not business in and of itself you have a problem with. It is the manner in which business is conducted. I heard tons whining about sweatshops. The theory and idea behind low cost foreign labor is sound (comparative advantage). It isn't executed in an ethical way. Don't throw baby out with bathwater.

In business analysis, of course an employee is objectified. Here's what the employee can do for you, and here's how much they cost. That's just logic. It's being objective. You want to pay a bunch of employees more than the market value of their labor, go right ahead, that is your decision, but the cold hard fact is that it's money out of your pocket. You can do it, but it costs you. Sorry if reality isn't all rainbows and butterflies, but don't blame "business" for that. Being ethical costs money. Whether or not you wanna do that is up to you, not up to any business school or theory.

Financial analysts and money managers are not smart? HAHAHAHA. Give me a fucking break. It's a VERY quantitative job in a VERY competitive field. OK, maybe their emotional intelligence or perspective on life is not up to snuff, but they are VERY intelligent and driven individuals.

I am cynical as hell, so we're kind of on the same page. But I believe that your beef is not with "business" it is with human nature. Your very warm and loving fellow psychology students may seem nice enough on the surface, but they are selfish in other ways. They feed their own emotions based on other drivers, but they are selfish the same I would speculate. And that's spending forever with these INFJ types to know that soft and feely does not equal unselfish at all.

Serenity
23-07-11, 12:43 AM
I just have to post this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN14my-ttEI&playnext=1&list=PLA04D3F302F908DCD

serenesam
24-07-11, 03:47 AM
Financial analysts and money managers are not smart? HAHAHAHA. Give me a fucking break. It's a VERY quantitative job in a VERY competitive field. OK, maybe their emotional intelligence or perspective on life is not up to snuff, but they are VERY intelligent and driven individuals.

Maybe you are right as the research shows that people who lie tend to be more successful - http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=7197.5742.0.0

Not to forget all the white collar crimes listed on the fbi's website: http://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog

Feelings
24-07-11, 04:57 AM
Maybe you are right as the research shows that people who lie tend to be more successful - http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=7197.5742.0.0

Not to forget all the white collar crimes listed on the fbi's website: http://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog Well yeah, obviously. If someone's purely focusing on their objective, while disregarding ethics, they are more effective in reaching their objective.

So you dug around and found some white collar criminals, and used that to conjecture that the investment management profession is a dishonest one?

Lerxst
25-07-11, 06:24 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/companies-churn-profits-not-jobs-000120070.html

(http://news.yahoo.com/companies-churn-profits-not-jobs-000120070.html)Major in whatever you like, but apparently the businesses people are going to college to learn how to run could give a rat's ass about hiring you.

SpilledMilk
26-07-11, 02:55 AM
All life lives at the expense of its environment. Business is merely a set of tools. Use what you want, discard what you don't find morally justifiable. To become informed of all the tools available is to be a well-rounded adult. To shun certain tools without even understanding them is true close-mindedness.

daydreamer
04-08-11, 07:52 AM
Do you think it could be just your school like this? Then again, I could see business majors being like how you described it. But, what can you do with a major in psychology compared to a major in business? I mean, true life isn't about paying the bills and having food on the table, but it sure is important. Was getting a business major just a major waste of time?

the
04-08-11, 08:42 AM
The problem with majoring in business in my opinion is that you go to school and learn how to run a business but you have nothing to sell whereas someone else majors in electrical engineering and then doesnt know how to start/run a business. Then someone from the upper class comes along and can do both because he went to the right schools and the first two people make him rich.

serenesam
04-08-11, 01:50 PM
Do you think it could be just your school like this?

No, I attended SDSU - http://newscenter.sdsu.edu/marcomm/rankings.aspx

SDSU is ranked among the nation's best graduate schools in business, according to U.S. News and World Report's "America's Best Graduate Schools 2012."
SDSU is ranked among the nation's best undergraduate business programs according to U.S. News and World Report's "America's Best Colleges 2011."
SDSU's College of Business is also listed among Princeton Review's best business schools - 2010.


Then again, I could see business majors being like how you described it. But, what can you do with a major in psychology compared to a major in business?

There is really not much you can do with a bachelor's degree in psychology, you really need a master's degree, but even then it is highly competitive. The drop out rate for the undergraduate program itself is 50%. Only about 5% actually go on to pursue a PhD. And even with a master's degree, I still hear about unemployed stories.


I mean, true life isn't about paying the bills and having food on the table, but it sure is important. Was getting a business major just a major waste of time?

For me it wasn't, I can only speak for myself. First of all, in the real world, particularly in the field of business, some managers don't really care about your educational background especially if you are good at sales. I have worked in banking and sales before and particularly in marketing firms, the turnover rate is very high as it is a highly competitive field. In banking, your managers will push you hard to close sales in getting people to open accounts. I actually think performance supersedes educational background. For business, I don't even think a bachelor's is necessary, an associate's degree should be just fine. I know a lot of managers at Wells Fargo with only a high school diploma....and you have a lot of management graduates with a degree wondering why they can't get a managerial position.....college is a big scam.....I also know a lot of managers with only a high school diploma in other companies.....a lot of average folks start their own businesses and education isn't really their background, in fact, building a successful company had nothing to do with the intellectual learning of schools.

daydreamer
06-08-11, 07:15 AM
SDSU? I hear they're not very personable there in general. I would like to also congratulate you for getting into that school for I hear it's very difficult. When it was ranked best college, what were they basing it on? Were they basing it off how where graduates of SDSU go after college or there test scores? Did you enjoy SDSU?

I know many people with a degree in psychology yet they have jobs that don't even require that degree at all. What do you wish you majored in?

True, I've seen some Wells Fargo employees like you described. But schooling does help and it looks good for a college resume. It's pretty hard to get a well-paying job without a college degree. Do you think that you learned a lot with your business administration degree?

Feelings
06-08-11, 08:12 AM
it does help, but how much it helps depends on what you study, and specifically what you're trying to get into
for most programs of study, i too would say that whether or not it is worth it to spend 4 years and $20-30k is very much up for debate

serenesam
06-08-11, 05:06 PM
SDSU? I hear they're not very personable there in general.

Well, generally speaking I would assume this to be the case for most public universities anyway because of the potential 500 students per course. I would imagine from the perspective of a professor how insane that would be to personally get to know every single student every semester. I was lucky to get some course where there were only 40 students (and yes, I do call it luck because I always seemed to crash the courses successfully while others were not so fortunate). The school is overcrowded and students can't always get the courses they need so you have students doing five year programs instead of four and also probably because they wanted to take the easy professors (visit ratemyprofessors.com). I didn't really care so I graduated in four years instead and I thought it would be a balance to have both easy and tough professors. I was also accepted to UCSD but did not attend because I had a lot of personal issues that prevented me from going there, to make a long story short, I had a lot of personal struggles in my life, growing up in region that was of low socioeconomic status and a single mother.

So yes, the majority of professors are not that personable particularly in the school of business because it is like the most popular major and it's a totally different level of competition. I knew people that went to a community college and said it was so easy to get an "A" but when they transferred to state, they started to get "B"s. You'll have professors where they only give a certain number of "A"s after all, they can't give everybody the letter grade of A. Psychology is probably the only exception to all the majors at that school and I would probably say it is the easiest major in the entire school (probably easier than the other sciences too). In my opinion, I really felt the professors were personable but maybe that is just me, who knows.


I would like to also congratulate you for getting into that school for I hear it's very difficult.

Thanks. Yeah, I hear every year, it just gets harder and harder to get in because more students apply and there isn't enough space. The school of business is probably the most difficult to get into, I hear you need like a 2.9 or a 3.0 GPA to get in. Some people say that is easy but if you really think about it, that is a very high GPA. Essentially that means you need all "B"s or higher. If you want a minor in business, you must have a minimum GPA of 3.0.


When it was ranked best college, what were they basing it on?

I don't really know how to answer this question as I don't fully understand what you mean by best college. It certainly isn't "the best" college as I am sure there are other colleges that rank higher than that. I would certainly say the Ivy League schools are superior to SDSU but again it all depends on your career field and major. If you want the best psychology experience in its most rigorous academia, then I would recommend going to UCSD, they have a much better program. UCSD is more for like doctors and scientists and SDSU is more like for business, arts, and nursing (UCSD does not offer a degree in nursing or business). SDSU is also known for being a party school too. Nonetheless, it does have one of top nursing programs and is certainly one of the best schools in the whole country.


Were they basing it off how where graduates of SDSU go after college or there test scores?

Uhm, well when I was in my final year in high school, you know teachers and family members kept pushing college like crazy. Everybody always assumes you need to attend college and they kept preaching about it, of course, I was young and ignorant. I can tell you I know a lot of people that are unemployed whether or not you want to believe it. Also, watch this documentary called "College Conspiracy" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

However at that time, I was not "awakened". It was only after a couple of years after I graduated when I began an awakening process which is why I stumbled upon videos such as "Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts

Without having to bore you with extensive writing, the way I can explain it all simply is through a clip from the Maxtrix on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps


Did you enjoy SDSU?

Yes and no. Yes, it was interesting to meet a lot of people but at the same time not really because I felt that I have learned so much more outside of school now that it's been several years after I had graduated.


I know many people with a degree in psychology yet they have jobs that don't even require that degree at all.

Oh yeah, they work at Starbucks. :)


What do you wish you majored in?

Probably nursing because there are more job opportunities.


True, I've seen some Wells Fargo employees like you described. But schooling does help and it looks good for a college resume. It's pretty hard to get a well-paying job without a college degree. Do you think that you learned a lot with your business administration degree?

Not really. At the university, they intentionally make it harder than it appears. In real life, it really isn't that complicated unless you want to be a CPA, CMA, or a CFA. Marketing and management is just....common sense. In fact the research has demonstrated that EQ is four times the variance and two times the profit over IQ (what I learned in the school of management and industrial and organizational psychology). The research also shows that the more formal education one receives, the less creative they become. Now if you want to work at Wall Street and something like that, good luck competing with other Ivy League graduates with your SDSU degree. I'm sure graduates at Duke University will have an advantage. Have you seen all the seasons of the The Apprentice by Donald Trump? I have and there was a season in which it was the college graduates versus the non-college graduates, and they were essentially dead-even.....so like I said before, performance supersedes educational background. In the words of Donald Trump himself, "I know someone with just a high school diploma that makes three times as much as someone with a college degree."

serenesam
06-08-11, 06:01 PM
Oh, I forgot to add that going to cal state may actually be better than the UC system because like-minded individuals like to hire people like them. For example, when I worked at a bank, the team I joined all were cal state graduates or in cal state schools. It became very obvious that the manager only hired cal state graduates and other people who went to UC or Standford did not get the job. I recall during the job interview, I put on a show and noted that I did not attend a prestigious school and the manager responded by saying that those very “smart” people (I guess he was implying nerds) don’t have social skills to do the job correctly with fire and passion. I am not sure if you have heard this but lots of mangers particularly in the area of sales acknowledge that their best performers are not always college graduates. I’ll give you another example. There was a job I applied at a marketing firm and manager noted, “you’ll be surprised who the top performers are, they are just average ordinary people.” I saw the pictures of all their top performers, not a single one of them was a college graduate….now maybe that is just perhaps an isolated thing but it is very interesting. It is all about how you interact with people socially that really counts….

In other words, “ganster-like” people hire “ganster-like” individuals. So you want to go for an MBA? You know UCSD has a management program, right? Would you get your MBA at UCSD or at SDSU? I would get it at SDSU because again, it’s that “ganster-like” mentality that forms a bond between you and your “streets smart” manager.

I will admit that I am an introvert at heart but all the shit that I went through force me to take the “ganster” route. I am unique in that I can go both ways between the “book smart” people and the “streets smart” crowd. Even as a kid, yeah, sure, I could fit in with all those geeks and nerds yet simultaneously, I wasn’t really one of them…..

Even in some jobs I have had, the managers acted all professional in front of people but behind the scenes, they would be using a lot of profanity and talking trash about people and their customers. Seriously, all you introverts out there who would like to develop that “bad boy” side of you should definitely go into sales or at least try to. I would imagine it be a lot easier for extroverts because they’re used to making up jokes, etc.

The funny thing though, is my family really believe I love introverted shy women but in actuality that is not the case. Secretly, I have always been attracted to extroverted women, because, o, I don’t know, they’re just more fun to be around with. I have always like strong and powerful women for some unexplainable reason.

daydreamer
07-08-11, 06:56 AM
That's awesome that you graduated in 4 years instead of 5. You must be really smart!

It seems like they should be personable, the psychology teachers I mean. Psychology deals with people, so don't you need to be personable to understand people?

Thank you! A lot of people think that a 3.0 is bad but I find it very good to get!

I'm not smart enough to get into UCSD :( But I already got into college, so it's all good. Ivy League schools aren't neccessarily the best either, in fact, I bet the students are more competitive there then at SDSU (I could be wrong, though).

My computer doesn't have any sound, so I can't watch the documentary, unfrotunatly :( I might watch it later when I'm on a different computer. Do you know any written documents about this "conspiracy theory"?

A lot of people note that they learn more outside of school then in it. Sometimes you learn more from your peers than from your teachers.

Haha the starbucks employees can work there psychology magic and have the customers order more then what they originally intended XD

But I thought you said that life is more then just paying the bills? Do you think you would enjoy nursing?

Psychology is kind of common sense too. Suppressed feelings and how the mind effects the body and vice-versa. I wonder if everything is common sense but our eyes need to be open up to it?

When you say more formal education, what do you mean? Like middleschool, highschool, and college? There are a lot of people who make more money then those who didn't finish college like the lead singer in Rolling Stones plus Bill Gates. However, there are a lot more people with college degrees that make more then those who don't. No, I haven't seen that show.

That note you made about the ordinary people actually made me smile inside. To think that not all the best performers went Ivy League schools. However, I don't have very good people skills, unfortunatly. It sucks because I think I want a job that has to do with people.

I'm not smart enough for either one of those schools.

That's good that you have both kind of smarts. Haha nerds and geeks are awesome! It's funny because everyone always thinks I'm smart just because I work hard and focus on school lol.

Some customers do get annoying, I admit. I don't blame them for talking trash about them behind the scenes if the customers weren't nice people. I see the way some customers act and feel bad for the employees have to take all of that if they did nothing wrong.

Haha that's funny because I really like introverted people haha. Of course, I like introverts to talk back to me too :)

serenesam
07-08-11, 04:09 PM
That's awesome that you graduated in 4 years instead of 5. You must be really smart!

Thanks for the compliment but a lot of it has to do with consistency and hardwork. I was in the EOP (Educational Opportunity Program) and took advantage of free tutoring without having to pay. :)


It seems like they should be personable, the psychology teachers I mean. Psychology deals with people, so don't you need to be personable to understand people?

The lower division courses don't necessarily have to be personable because essentially the upper division courses are a repeat of lower division courses but simply just more extensive. As you get into the higher level courses, classroom size shrinks and your psychology professors become more personable. But for psy 101 introduction, yeah, expect to be in a class of 300-500 students. The same applies to graduate school. In the undergraduate program, for example, in the major of management (don't know if it has changed since then), there is a course call Human Resource Management. There is also the exact same course at the graduate level at the MBA program. So essentially graduate school is a repeat of undergrad just more stuff.


Thank you! A lot of people think that a 3.0 is bad but I find it very good to get! I'm not smart enough to get into UCSD :( But I already got into college, so it's all good. Ivy League schools aren't neccessarily the best either, in fact, I bet the students are more competitive there then at SDSU (I could be wrong, though).

I don't really understand why this has anything to with what you define "smart." You stated you wanted to major in business administration and minor in psychology, correct? UCSD does not offer a major in business administration for undergraduates. Don't you think you should study of career field of your choice? What college are you currently attending?


My computer doesn't have any sound, so I can't watch the documentary, unfrotunatly :( I might watch it later when I'm on a different computer. Do you know any written documents about this "conspiracy theory"?

I would suggest going to the library to watch it. It is a really good documentary. The easiest way would be to go to Youtube and search "College Conspiracy."


A lot of people note that they learn more outside of school then in it. Sometimes you learn more from your peers than from your teachers. Haha the starbucks employees can work there psychology magic and have the customers order more then what they originally intended XD

Oh yeah, they're everywhere, they flip burgers at Burger King too. :)


But I thought you said that life is more then just paying the bills? Do you think you would enjoy nursing?

Yeah, I think I would enjoy nursing.


Psychology is kind of common sense too. Suppressed feelings and how the mind effects the body and vice-versa. I wonder if everything is common sense but our eyes need to be open up to it?

Who knows.


When you say more formal education, what do you mean? Like middleschool, highschool, and college?

Anything beyond high school.


There are a lot of people who make more money then those who didn't finish college like the lead singer in Rolling Stones plus Bill Gates. However, there are a lot more people with college degrees that make more then those who don't. No, I haven't seen that show. That note you made about the ordinary people actually made me smile inside. To think that not all the best performers went Ivy League schools. However, I don't have very good people skills, unfortunatly. It sucks because I think I want a job that has to do with people.

Are you serious or are you just messing around with me? You seem like you're very good with people and have the social skills.


I'm not smart enough for either one of those schools.

That's good that you have both kind of smarts. Haha nerds and geeks are awesome! It's funny because everyone always thinks I'm smart just because I work hard and focus on school lol.

Some customers do get annoying, I admit. I don't blame them for talking trash about them behind the scenes if the customers weren't nice people. I see the way some customers act and feel bad for the employees have to take all of that if they did nothing wrong.

I think this is evidence of your "street smarts." :)

rawr
07-08-11, 08:57 PM
this is your opinion and experience; while a lot of it resonates, i feel it's an unfair blanket statement.

daydreamer
07-08-11, 09:37 PM
Those things really help a lot. Hopefully the one at my school will be helpful too.

I'm going to be attending Saint Mary's College of California (not the all girls one). I need to have a degree that'll help pay the bills and psychology will not do that unfortunatly :( I was thinking about research too...

I might. The library is closed today, though. What is the "college conspiracy" anyway? Is it just something to make people think they need to go to college to be successful?

I don't like Burger King lol. Isn't psychology the number one major in America?

Haha it's a mystery XD

Ohhhhh. I can kind of see people being less creative with more formal education yet at the same time I kind of can't see it. If you have more knowledge of the world, wouldn't that make you more creative? Don't doctors have to be creative too? I mean, don't they have to think of creative ways to remember all of that stuff they learn in medical school?

Haha I'm totally serious. Thank you for the compliment :) Haha I hugged my new orthodontist instead of giving him just a regular handshake and my mom thought that was totally inappropriate lol.

Really? That's street smarts? I thought that was like knowing slang words or something lol.

serenesam
07-08-11, 10:22 PM
What is the "college conspiracy" anyway?

It's a documentary as to why college is a scam.


I don't like Burger King lol. Isn't psychology the number one major in America?

You can do a search on this.

Here's one source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/worklife/10/27/cb.what.major.pays/index.html


Haha it's a mystery XD

Ohhhhh. I can kind of see people being less creative with more formal education yet at the same time I kind of can't see it. If you have more knowledge of the world, wouldn't that make you more creative? Don't doctors have to be creative too?

I mean, don't they have to think of creative ways to remember all of that stuff they learn in medical school?

Well just like with everything in life, there always seems to be a paradox. One day you hear vitamin E is good for you, next you don't. That's why I don't really care about school as I have learned more outside of school. Funny, I always seem to find conflicting information on just almost about everything if you are familiar with my posts.


Haha I'm totally serious. Thank you for the compliment :) Haha I hugged my new orthodontist instead of giving him just a regular handshake and my mom thought that was totally inappropriate lol.

Awesome. :)

daydreamer
08-08-11, 07:08 AM
I was kind of surprised to see Biology there.

Thanks for the source (:

There's always an argument for just about everything. I learn both a lot in and out of school. In school I've learned how to read, write, multiply, divide, etc. while outside of school (does recess and lunch include outside of school? lol) I devoloped my morals and other things. Haha that's all right, it's good that you get both sides of things even if they do conflict.

Haha XD Man, you're wickd awesome! :D

InvisibleJim
12-08-11, 05:43 PM
The lesson.

Business Administrators think business is good because they make money.

By contrast

Psychologist/Sociologists think business is bad because they don't make as much money.

Wibble wibble.

Barnabas
12-08-11, 07:00 PM
wibble wibble? what on earth kind of onomonopia is that?

serenesam
13-08-11, 09:11 PM
The lesson.

Business Administrators think business is good because they make money.

By contrast

Psychologist/Sociologists think business is bad because they don't make as much money.

Wibble wibble.

“Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life.” - Theodore Roosevelt

InvisibleJim
13-08-11, 09:33 PM
“Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life.” - Theodore Roosevelt

The problem? I'm not American. :) Regardless of what America-at-any-price might think.

LABRADOR71
13-08-11, 11:46 PM
I earned MBA with focus in human resources. The human resources part is what attracted me to it - me being INFP - in the nature helper, an idealist, and wanting to fight impossible causes (before that I earned B.A. in psychology). I do not know what I was thinking. I took classes that related heavily on business ethics at the university that is based on Christian values, which had to be applied to any course I took in every paper I wrote - many professors were experienced businessmen, layers, ex CEOs, managers in various fields and Christians. However, what is the reality in the globalized world ?- core values posted on each major company website - respect others, give back to community, ethics, corporate citizenship bla...bla...blaa...Once you start working for such company - you realize that is all one big fat lie. Profit is the most important not people - and they do not realize that is people's creativity and ideas that make the most profit - human capital. Ethical people are fired once they oppose unethical practices no matter how good they are in what they do, but bad ones stay harassing others, behaving like jerks, and having their way - so much for fake "core values" and "corporate mission statements." Most business persons are ESTJs (most opposing types to any INFP) (I am not saying that all ESTJs are bad people, but as businesses persons, they could be pretty blunt and ruthless), and sometimes most ruthless ones are those who climb the corporate ladder over other people's dead bodies, by playing corporate politics skillfully, getting to the top without mercy or any feeling just thinking how their status/ego is going to be enhanced, how much their department is going to earn in a particular quarter, and how many people they have to fire to cut the costs (one I know often mentioned names of the people who should he throw under the buss next month while his subordinates were listening his loud phone calls while he was talking to his boss

LABRADOR71
13-08-11, 11:47 PM
serenesam Exactly!

serenesam
14-08-11, 01:42 AM
I earned MBA with focus in human resources. The human resources part is what attracted me to it - me being INFP - in the nature helper, an idealist, and wanting to fight impossible causes (before that I earned B.A. in psychology). I do not know what I was thinking. I took classes that related heavily on business ethics at the university that is based on Christian values, which had to be applied to any course I took in every paper I wrote - many professors were experienced businessmen, layers, ex CEOs, managers in various fields and Christians. However, what is the reality in the globalized world ?- core values posted on each major company website - respect others, give back to community, ethics, corporate citizenship bla...bla...blaa...Once you start working for such company - you realize that is all one big fat lie. Profit is the most important not people - and they do not realize that is people's creativity and ideas that make the most profit - human capital. Ethical people are fired once they oppose unethical practices no matter how good they are in what they do, but bad ones stay harassing others, behaving like jerks, and having their way - so much for fake "core values" and "corporate mission statements." Most business persons are ESTJs (most opposing types to any INFP) (I am not saying that all ESTJs are bad people, but as businesses persons, they could be pretty blunt and ruthless), and sometimes most ruthless ones are those who climb the corporate ladder over other people's dead bodies, by playing corporate politics skillfully, getting to the top without mercy or any feeling just thinking how their status/ego is going to be enhanced, how much their department is going to earn in a particular quarter, and how many people they have to fire to cut the costs (one I know often mentioned names of the people who should he throw under the buss next month while his subordinates were listening his loud phone calls while he was talking to his boss – despite the fact that those he mentioned were dedicated employees) not caring who they hurt in the process. This is not just in one company, but in many companies I worked – same story. Let’s pretend we are ethical (give some poor school few old computers) company, and we can do whatever we want. We are enslaved by multinational companies not by governments’ people! Any advanced sociology class could teach you this if you listen. A business degree in this economy is not such good idea. Those experienced with fake values and no degrees that could pretend well will get jobs.

Thanks for sharing your story. Think about it, if you were manager and you had a subordinate that can close sales beyond the average individual, would you care if he/she had an educational background? Not only that, you may actually have to answer to the regional sales manger and your subordinate makes you look very good. :)

LABRADOR71
14-08-11, 02:03 AM
Perhaps, I would not get myself in the position where there is not appreciation for an educated people just for those who get to earn most money by god knows what unethical/pretending technicuques. If a sales person has a high emotional intelligence, he or she can succeed without a degree and without unethical methods/pressuring a customer to buy what he or she does not need, but those are few and trully genuine individuals. If I am in such possition (pressured to succumb to almighty dollar instead of human value), I would be terribly miserable and seek to leave. I like jobs where I am happy, and will not sucrifice my health and happiness for a dollar. I appreciate a sincere sales person who genuinely cares about the customer, emphathise with him or her not for those that care about numbers only - and numbers are not people, but for some people are just that a statistic or suckers who bought something the do not need anyway. Sales persons I know are not sincere individuals, and I do not appreciate them. I care about a human aspect of sales - what can I do to better this person not to take his or her money.

serenesam
14-08-11, 02:41 AM
Perhaps, I would not get myself in the position where there is not appreciation for an educated people just for those who get to earn most money by god knows what unethical/pretending technicuques. If a sales person has a high emotional intelligence, he or she can succeed without a degree and without unethical methods/pressuring a customer to buy what he or she does not need, but those are few and trully genuine individuals. If I am in such possition (pressured to succumb to almighty dollar instead of human value), I would be terribly miserable and seek to leave. I like jobs where I am happy, and will not sucrifice my health and happiness for a dollar. I appreciate a sincere sales person who genuinely cares about the customer, emphathise with him or her not for those that care about numbers only - and numbers are not people, but for some people are just that a statistic or suckers who bought something the do not need anyway. Sales persons I know are not sincere individuals, and I do not appreciate them. I care about a human aspect of sales - what can I do to better this person not to take his or her money.

I live in the state of California. You can go to monster.com and find all kinds of jobs hiring at marketing firms and fortune 500 companies. I have worked at 3 firms and all have been about how many sales you are able to close compared to your co-workers. One of those fortune 500 companies were based on door-to-door sales (yeah, quite shocking I know) and there were residents upset complaining about solicitation laws. It's funny because when I applied for that job, there was nothing about knocking on people's doors and everybody puts on a suit.

Some residents were kind of scared, they thought we were federal undercover agents or something, I was even told I look like that guy from the Matrix. lol.

Some of the sales tactics we used were pretty aggressive in my opinion, mostly derived from the psychology of sales.

serenesam
14-08-11, 02:49 AM
Well yeah, obviously. If someone's purely focusing on their objective, while disregarding ethics, they are more effective in reaching their objective.

So you dug around and found some white collar criminals, and used that to conjecture that the investment management profession is a dishonest one?

Well maybe the word dishonest is not the right word. An investment manager talks about his experience in this Zeitgeist meeting (you might want to fast-forward to 38:15) and I can sort of relate to his thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7UX_gfekbc

Feelings
14-08-11, 03:34 AM
Well maybe the word dishonest is not the right word. An investment manager talks about his experience in this Zeitgeist meeting (you might want to fast-forward to 38:15) and I can sort of relate to his thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7UX_gfekbcI did fastforward there. I would say the man is correct, and that I strongly relate. I think it's a mistake to disparage 'business' altogether though.